Didn't realize there was a time frame you were looking for, Gardner. 
Janeway, Lesbian Icon?
- Thread starter Mr Silver
- Start date
Maybe I'm 14?
But that series has never been rerun down here. It was abandoned in the 80s well, and for good reason. It's just a shock to remember that it exists.
Next, let us lament the glory of Evening Shade!
I've been hammering at my keyboard for almost a week assuming that Icon and Role-model are synonyms, but they're really not. An icon has to be representative of the subject matter not just a pleasing mastermold to cherry pick off... Not that the nature of this language isn't fractal and nebulous at the best of times.
But that series has never been rerun down here. It was abandoned in the 80s well, and for good reason. It's just a shock to remember that it exists.
Next, let us lament the glory of Evening Shade!
I've been hammering at my keyboard for almost a week assuming that Icon and Role-model are synonyms, but they're really not. An icon has to be representative of the subject matter not just a pleasing mastermold to cherry pick off... Not that the nature of this language isn't fractal and nebulous at the best of times.
He's not a favorite of mine, and the concept of a sentient hologram really irks me.
The Doctor is not sentient. IT's been programmed to make people think IT's sentient or verging on sentience so that the simp gimp mook feeb human crew can cheer on IT's empowering self affirming coming out party never ending birth... You know the sort of people who dress up dogs in sweater vests and dinky caps who are also hippy's on smack?
A "game" to stave off space madness in the delicately minded human crew.
Doctor Zimmerman explained all this on his DS9 episode.
And if you fell for it too, no biggy.
O!
And with the technology available, it's not any more difficult to reprogram a fleshies mind than it is to brainwash a light bulb. Janeway could have upgraded her crew, and removed their maladjustments and erased the traitorous loyalty to the Maquis whn ever she wanted.
He could have killed Suders brain and replaced him with another Harry Kim.
It's not like the crew wasn't disposable to the mission?
A "game" to stave off space madness in the delicately minded human crew.
Doctor Zimmerman explained all this on his DS9 episode.
And if you fell for it too, no biggy.
O!
And with the technology available, it's not any more difficult to reprogram a fleshies mind than it is to brainwash a light bulb. Janeway could have upgraded her crew, and removed their maladjustments and erased the traitorous loyalty to the Maquis whn ever she wanted.
He could have killed Suders brain and replaced him with another Harry Kim.
It's not like the crew wasn't disposable to the mission?
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I can't say I ever did. When I see EMH episodes, all I can think is, "But, he's programmed to do that, and you guys are letting him program himself to do other things. Why are you letting a program program itself?"
It's all subroutines, photons, and forcefields. Once power surge or accidental deletion, and *poof* not more EMH anyway.
It's all subroutines, photons, and forcefields. Once power surge or accidental deletion, and *poof* not more EMH anyway.
Despite my misgiving with the technology which began with moments like Data telling Crusher and Trio that he was not human and did not have emotions or feelings and they would say "I don't think so" or "I wouldn't be so sure" i was completely of the mind that the whole "holographic rights" story line was a metaphor for gay rights... Since the only other rights they could have been takling about haven't been relevantly trampled on for 2 decades.
Okay
So, may be there was gay subtext on Voyager, but there was still ceratinly no homoerrotic tension between any of the characters.
Okay
So, may be there was gay subtext on Voyager, but there was still ceratinly no homoerrotic tension between any of the characters.
But humans can be also be "deleted" (including accidentally) by a power surge, phaser, etc etc so no more human either.
I don't really care if the doctor was programmed or become sentient or actually acquired sentience....he was a very good character and played very well by Robert Picardo. Besides some very good episodes, he offerred some much needed wry humour to the show.
I didn't see it as that at all - I saw it as an episode touching on issues we are just beginning to face in our time (20-21st century) ie the rights of newly emerging cybernetic "beings". I teach bioethics and medical ethics and even these days, this episode of Voyager (and Data's daughter) still occasionally come up in class discussions on this topic.
Evolution happens; stranger things have happened in the Star Trek universe, and Holodoc wouldn't be the first hologram to gain/have sentience - Moriarty and Vic Fontaine are other possible examples.
Exactly. What's the difference between subroutines/photons/forcefields and flesh/gray matter/neurons except for the physical material?
"Commander Riker, what are your intentions towards my daughter?"
Good times.
Moriarty was a magical mistake happy accident, meanwhile who ever said that Vic is sentient? i think that at one point that his programmed turned off to fufill the requirements of the game that they were playing just more so proves that he is following the parameters of his program.
Good times.
Moriarty was a magical mistake happy accident, meanwhile who ever said that Vic is sentient? i think that at one point that his programmed turned off to fufill the requirements of the game that they were playing just more so proves that he is following the parameters of his program.
Yeah... I didn't say otherwise regarding any of that. But, he's still not a flesh and blood being, and I am... skeptical ...at the idea of allowing an AI to take command of its own programming.
We've all watched Terminator, right?
Well that's only because it kept going horribly wrong.
But maybe he only extended and increased the complexity of his programming inthe ways he was already programmed to, hells he might have been programmed to fuck up with would force the fleshies to reboot the bugger.
they totally enabled his selfdestructive trip.
But maybe he only extended and increased the complexity of his programming inthe ways he was already programmed to, hells he might have been programmed to fuck up with would force the fleshies to reboot the bugger.
they totally enabled his selfdestructive trip.
The program didn't turn off; it changed everything around Vic. He, however, stayed the same and was as confused/unsure what to do as the Niners. In an earlier episode, he was able to control his own program to turn off and on at his desire, and then negotiated with Quark to keep it running at all times so he could "have a life." I don't know if he was programmed that way or if he transcended the programming, but there it is.
We've all seen Mr. Data too, and in the same universe as Holodoc.
Data was a different beast. Reprogramming him was not a simple matter. All of his processes were internal in a self contained unit.
They didn't come right out and *say* it, but it seems obvious that he is. It would be impossible to prove otherwise, at any rate.
Agree Kestrel. humans are made of atoms and are "more than the sum of their parts". Why shouldn't a hologram made of photons/forcefields and subroutines be any different ie greatr than the sum of its parts?
See my reply above to Kestrel - there is no reason why a hologram can't be greater than the sum of it's parts - just as humans are (afterall, we are comprised of atoms//elements).
Well, you could ask him?
He was made intentionally for entertainments sake to break some wall and talk to the holocustomers as if they were real people and not characters. He knows that he is a hologram and he knows that he is not real, or are you saying just because he retains the belief that he isn't real that he could be wrong and living a lie.
Nothing he is doing is a surprise to Feelix.
Besides, he's either a tool or a slave, and everyone who is "real' is either treating him like a tool because he is a tool or they don't know he is "real" OR they are treating him like slave.
Federation Holograms can't be real because the federation would never use Slaves.
He was made intentionally for entertainments sake to break some wall and talk to the holocustomers as if they were real people and not characters. He knows that he is a hologram and he knows that he is not real, or are you saying just because he retains the belief that he isn't real that he could be wrong and living a lie.
Nothing he is doing is a surprise to Feelix.
Besides, he's either a tool or a slave, and everyone who is "real' is either treating him like a tool because he is a tool or they don't know he is "real" OR they are treating him like slave.
Federation Holograms can't be real because the federation would never use Slaves.
