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Janeway, Lesbian Icon?

Mr Silver

Mr Silver

Commodore
Newbie
I've always seen Janeway as a role model to women, it stands to reason as the protagonist and Captain of a Starship the character has made the Star Trek franchise more accessible to women, which is a really good thing as it takes away the classic "stereotype" that fans of Star Trek are all isolated men in their 30's

However since joining this forum and indeed from a couple of friends who are "light fans of Trek" and also Lesbian, i've noticed that Janeway is seen as a Lesbian icon, now i've always been really open minded, i'm liberated from all the negative views that some people have of gay or lesbian people, however i've always struggled to understand some things related to the the "LGBT culture", in particular

What constitutes Janeway as a "Lesbian Icon"

Thoughts?
 
The short answer is Kate Mulgrew.

I'm about to leave and won't be able to come back to this until Tuesday of next week.

But, here are my thought, as a lesbian.

The character of Janeway exudes a certain amount of confidence that all women tend to gravitate toward. Compassionate with her people, strong under pressure, and intelligent to boot, Janeway is someone many aspire to be like

On the flip of that, people tend to be attracted to others who posses the qualities they wish to have or find admirable.

Kate is very attractive.

When you add all of those things up, you get lesbian icon because we are drawn to her not only in the sense of a role model, but as someone we're attracted to.
 
Adm_Hawthorne said:
The short answer is Kate Mulgrew.

I'm about to leave and won't be able to come back to this until Tuesday of next week.

But, here are my thought, as a lesbian.

The character of Janeway exudes a certain amount of confidence that all women tend to gravitate toward. Compassionate with her people, strong under pressure, and intelligent to boot, Janeway is someone many aspire to be like

On the flip of that, people tend to be attracted to others who posses the qualities they wish to have or find admirable.

Kate is very attractive.

When you add all of those things up, you get lesbian icon because we are drawn to her not only in the sense of a role model, but as someone we're attracted to.
Click to expand...

That is pretty informative Adm_Hawthorne, Cheers for that :D

I can actually agree on many points, as a heterosexual man (in the 18-30 age group) i've always been attracted to women who exhibit those kind of qualities, confidence, compassion, independence, intelligence and strength, I find the character of Janeway and indeed Kate Mulgrew still attractive (even though she's got decades on me!)

From the "Lesbian Icon" pov, I understand how those qualities qualify KM for that status, however from a cultural perspective does that mean that all female characters and/or actresses that exhibit similar qualites, also become "Lesbian Icons"?

From what I understand, many women regardless of sexual orientation are attracted naturally to confidence, strength and independence

Some people I know still think that being a lesbian means a "butch" look, (which is very far from the truth, I know a lesbian couple that are so feminine they'd put glamour models to shame!) however in Janeways case, you see so many sides, one minute she will be "a woman" while the next she will be walking around in a tank top, handling a phaser rifle and fighting off enemies, while her male security team all get KO'd!!
 
I don't think she's "just" a lesbian icon, but like Dixie Carter/Julia Sugarbaker, she's also a "gay" icon.

Everyone tends to look to someone for inspiration, and the actress herself does inspire many segments of her audience, gay or straight.
 
Would KM's very touchy-feely acting have anything to do with this as well? Honestly, she creates subtext with just about any character just by hanging out in a room with them - male or female.

Also, she's the star of a show that contains a group of rather powerful females - B'Elanna, Kes (delicate, but with godlike psionic powers), Seven, Seska, the BQ, Susperia. I dunno if that's important or not, but it's sure interesting to me - a way different vibe than the rest of Trek.

Actually, you know who else generates subtext? The BQ. Holy cow. Actually, I take that back - there is nothing subtle about the way the BQ interacts with Seven and Janeway. :o
 
For me it's Janeway's attitude, Seven of Nine is good looking in an obvious way but I find Janeway more attractive. I agree with froot on the subtext, if you watch Voyager without the sound it really looks like Janeway is flirting with everyone. I think the Borg Queen was flirting with Seven to seduce her back to the collective (didn't realise till recently that the Borg Queen played Dax's ex-wife in DS9's Rejoined).

Being able to rock a vest has got to help too. Has Mulgrew ever played gay? That usually helps an actress become a lesbian icon. If she has and I didn't know I'll hafta lose some lezzy points.
 
Overall I think it's just human nature - people are easily swept away by stories and plots and often weave into narratives their own stories and what they wish would happen. Writers are aware of this and intentionally create the "space" in their stories for what people now call subtext.

Nothing keeps people more involved in a show like an unresolved storyline - this is why the Janeway/Chakotay thing (unresolved sexual tension) stayed alive for 7 years (and is still alive).....if they had got together, then the magic would have been lost and they become another boring TV couple.

Most TV shows have sexual tension as a text or subtext - authors, directors, actors etc intentionally build this into scripts simply because sex sells. Kate Mulgrew has often stated that there is a lot of sex in Star Trek, and if you watch any of the series (TOS, DS9, Voyager, TNG, ENT) you'll see it. Most of the characters flirt with each other - some are just more obvious at it than others eg Borg Queen - although I'd call that the art of cold seduction. Alice Kreig did a great job in that role (just my perspective as a heterosexual female).

Most actors (male and female) have straight and gay followings - there are fewer female pop culture icons and this creates the illusion that there are some lesbian icons eg Xena, Catwoman, Wonderwoman etc all have strong lesbian followings, but they also have very strong heterosexual and gay followings. In other words, I don't think a persons sexuality is everything to do with who they adopt as an icon.
 
Janeway is pejoratively sexless, so why would any sexual orientation want to hitch their horse to a benchwarmer like this lady with the exception of metrosexuals of course who are by definition sexless by choice?

That being said, she is dynamically resourceful, interesting and hot, so any gender or orientation can idolize Voyager's Captain without necessarily identifying with her.
 
Maybe it was that ep where she lost it because those unseen aliens were experimenting on them. Janeway was about to destroy them all and she growls, "I don't think you understand that you are not in control here!"

But perhaps her relationship with Seven of Nine may have prompted some to place their own perceptions on her sexuality.
 
Maybe we need someone to define "Lesbian Icon". I don't think one has to share the same sexuality to become "an icon", since Carter's "Julia Sugarbaker" from Designing Women in the 1980's-90's certainly didn't share the same sexuality as her gay following, but she had certain qualities that made her stand out for that community. Qualities that she shared with Captain Kathryn Janeway.

She was Fierce!

She was Humorous!

She was Strong!

She was Loyal!

She stood for Justice as her God (or Janeway's Federation) gave her the ability to see justice.

We have spoken elsewhere about Janeway's ability to not only seduce people to her way of thinking, but to seduce people into BELIEVING that they could do ANYTHING Janeway asked of them!

GAY Icon? LESBIAN Icon? FEMALE Icon?

Maybe we should get more basic and just call a spade a spade.

Captain Kathryn Janeway is more than an Icon... like all good Starship Captains she is an ARCHETYPE of the 1st hero/heroine.

Who wouldn't gravitate toward that?
 
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She's cheating.

There is no sexual inequality in the future.

It's almost like she's doping compared to the struggle women and lesbians have to carry on through in this straight mans world today.

Ironically by levelling the playing field in the 24th century, taking away the advantages sexism gives your average bloke in current job market, it is the accomplishments of straight men in the future which is dazzling because women and homosexuals are no longer being screwed out of a far tug, by complete bastards imposing "isism" based penalties on possibly the best people for any given job, position or role.
 
It's kind of odd, in Trek universe it isn't a big deal that the captain is a woman but in real life Voyager is know for having the first female captain. Were they trying to get more female viewers by having a female captain or did they just think it was overdue? Although there shouldn't be sexism in the future the female characters in Trek are always outnumbered by male characters.
 
in Trek universe it isn't a big deal that the captain is a woman
Click to expand...

What we tend to forget, is that in KIRK's Starfleet, it was not possible for a Starship Captain to be a woman, or so one is led to believe by the final episode in the original series....

JANICE: Your world of starship captains doesn't admit women. It isn't fair.
KIRK: No, it isn't. And you punished and tortured me because of it.
JANICE: I loved you. We could've roamed among the stars.
KIRK: We'd have killed each other.
JANICE: It might have been better.
(Kirk has a look around the room, and finds a wall-sized device with strange carvings. Janice sits up, points a remote at it and it lights up, pulling Kirk onto its surface. Janice gets out of bed, flips a switch on the device then stands in front of it too. She flips another switch then the machine works. We are shown images of Janice and Kirk going into the other's body. Faux Kirk steps down first and switches the machine off. He carries Janice back to the bed)

FauxKIRK: You had your chance, Captain Kirk. You should've smothered the life in me. Then they would have said Doctor Janice Lester died of radiation poisoning in the line of duty. Why didn't you do it? You always wanted to. Didn't you? You had the strength to do it. But you were afraid. You were always afraid. Now Janice Lester takes the place of Captain Kirk. I already possess your physical strength. Only this Captain Kirk is not afraid to kill. Now you know the indignity of being a woman. For you this agony will soon pass, as it has for me. Quiet. Quiet! Believe me, it's better to be dead than to live alone in the body of a woman. It's better to be dead.

Let us hope that Janice Lester's rantings were just that, the self loathing of one sick mind and not the self loathing of one person who could not advance above the 23rd century version of a glass ceiling.
 
Of course to be fair Turnabout was never intended to be a finale ep.

I liked Endgame just fine myself, full of interesting what ifs and whys, lol.
 
Kate's acting is part of it. She is very touchy-feely, and, as someone pointed out, that tends to create subtext.

That's another vital part of it. The character has to be able to create subtext to become a Lesbian Icon. Xena anyone?
 
I find (modern) Star Trek (not to be confused with the post modern Star Trek movies.) entirely sexless.

Everyone is plastic, prudish and Victorian.

It takes so much imagination to rejigger these stories into anything "dirty".
 
I am a married heterosexual female less then 30 yo and I would @$#* Janeway/ Kate Mulgrew... possiably leave my husband for her. I think Adm_Hawthorn said it best for the reasons why I and others find her so attractive. Because of this attraction I have a better understanding of how a woman can find another woman THAT attractive, not that I really didn't understand it at all or anything like that, but I am able to look at it a little differently knowing that I am capable of such feelngs.
I've asked myself why would she be a gay icon if she is not gay? Well, I would be gay for her and perhaps that could be one reason why. I'm sure I am not the only heterosexual women who feels/ felt this way.
 
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