Janeway Died? In Which Book?

[DimesDan]

We need a spit-take smilie on this board.

I was just going to ask what you meant by this...........

Does that mean this? (I did a google search... :/ )

or

Maybe it shouldn't be laughing...

....... untill Marie posted those two graphics which did pretty much some up my reaction to the original comment.

Well, I'm not a hardcore Janeway fan either

Ok then! Thats like saying Britannia still rules the waves

 

[DimesDan]

Sorry about the double post, but for a few days the dead parrot sketch has been going through my head regarding this thread so here's my attempted adaptation regarding the death of Janeway:

A customer enters a pet shop. Mr. Praline: 'Ello, I wish to register a complaint.
(The owner does not respond.)
Mr. Praline: 'Ello, Miss?
Owner: What do you mean "miss"?
Mr. Praline: I'm sorry, I have a cold. I wish to make a complaint!
Owner: We're closin' for lunch.
Mr. Praline: Never mind that, my lad. I wish to complain about this Janeway what I purchased not half an hour ago from this very boutique.
Owner: Oh yes, the, uh, the Coffee Brunette ...What's,uh...What's wrong with it?
Mr. Praline: I'll tell you what's wrong with it, my lad. 'C's dead, that's what's wrong with it!
Owner: No, no, 'c's uh,...she's resting.
Mr. Praline: Look, matey, I know a dead Janeway when I see one, and I'm looking at one right now.
Owner: No no she's not dead, she's, she's restin'! Remarkable thing, the The Coffee Brunette, idn'it, ay? Beautiful hair style!
Mr. Praline: The hair style don't enter into it. It's stone dead.
Owner: Nononono, no, no! 'E's resting!
Mr. Praline: All right then, if he's restin', I'll wake her up! (shouting at the cage) 'Ello, Missus Jolly Captain! I've got a lovely fresh coffee for you if you show...
(owner hits the cage)
Owner: There, she moved!
Mr. Praline: No, he didn't, that was you hitting the cage!
Owner: I never!!
Mr. Praline: Yes, you did!
Owner: I never, never did anything...
Mr. Praline: (yelling and hitting the cage repeatedly) 'ELLO CAPTAIN!!!!! Testing! Testing! Testing! Testing! This is your nine o'clock alarm call!
(Takes Janeway out of the cage and thumps its head on the counter. Throws it up in the air and watches it plummet to the floor.)
Mr. Praline: Now that's what I call a dead Janeway.
Owner: No, no.....No, 'c's stunned!
Mr. Praline: STUNNED?!?
Owner: Yeah! You stunned him, just as he was wakin' up! Coffee Brunettes stun easily, major.
Mr. Praline: Um...now look...now look, mate, I've definitely 'ad enough of this. That Janeway is definitely deceased, and when I purchased it not 'alf an hour ago, you assured me that its total lack of movement was due to it bein' tired and shagged out following a prolonged squawk.
Owner: Well, she's...she's, ah...probably pining for the DQ.
Mr. Praline: PININ' for the DELTA QUADRUNT?!?!?!? What kind of talk is that?, look, why did she fall flat on his back the moment I got 'er home?
Owner: The Coffee Brunette prefers keepin' on it's back! Remarkable Captain, id'nit, squire? Lovely hair!
Mr. Praline: Look, I took the liberty of examining that Janeway when I got it home, and I discovered the only reason that it had been sitting on its chair in the first place was that it had been NAILED there.
(pause)
Owner: Well, o'course it was nailed there! If I hadn't nailed that Janeway down, it would have nuzzled up to those bars, bent 'em apart with its beak, and VOOM! Feeweeweewee!
Mr. Praline: "VOOM"?!? Mate, this Janeway wouldn't "voom" if you put four million volts through it! 'C's bleedin' demised!
Owner: No no! 'C's pining!
Mr. Praline: 'C's not pinin'! 'C's passed on! This Janeway is no more! She has ceased to be! 'C's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'C's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'c rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'er to the perch 'c'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'C's off the twig! 'C's kicked the bucket, 'c's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-JANEWAY!!
(pause)
Owner: Well, I'd better replace it, then. (he takes a quick peek behind the counter) Sorry squire, I've had a look 'round the back of the shop, and uh, we're right out of Janeways.
Mr. Praline: I see. I see, I get the picture.
Owner: I got a Chakotay.
(pause)
Mr. Praline: Pray, does it talk?
Owner: Nnnnot really.
Mr. Praline: WELL IT'S HARDLY A BLOODY REPLACEMENT, IS IT?!!???!!?
Mr. Praline: Well.
(pause)
Owner: (quietly) D'you.... d'you want to come back to my place?
Mr. Praline: (looks around) Yeah, all right, sure.
Owner: N-no, I guess not. (gets ashamed, looks at his feet)

 

[Trent Roman]

Well, I'm not a hardcore Janeway fan either

We need a spit-take smilie on this board.

QFT. Lynx, you've gone on and on ad nauseum about how her death has ruined your enjoyment of the series. If you don't consider this hardcore, then I am confused.

I don't see why. Lynx has been arguing a principle. Had it been Janeway or somebody else, he'd still be pissed, and for the same reasons stated: he dislikes what he perceives as character destruction.

I've been arguing for relatively similar purposes. I've no specific fondness for Janeway; but whether it's a character I liked, like Data, or one I disliked, like Tucker, I don't care to see the characters so shoddily treated.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[William Leisner]

Does that mean this? (I did a google search... :/ )

or

Yep, those are spit-takes. (How would this act be described on the other side of the pond?)

 

[Therin of Andor]

Lynx has been arguing a principle. Had it been Janeway or somebody else, he'd still be pissed, and for the same reasons stated: he dislikes what he perceives as character destruction.

Nope, only if it's a character he cares about. He said so, many pages ago.

 

[JD]

Well, the fans and their feelings seem to have very low priority when it comes to the writers, producers, authors and those in charge of the TV series and the books as well.

Ok, Lynx I'm sorry, but you can't be suprised that people are getting pissed when you say stuff like this. Alot of the authors, editors, writers ect. would probably be rather upset by this statement.

 

[Semah]

I don't see why. Lynx has been arguing a principle. Had it been Janeway or somebody else, he'd still be pissed, and for the same reasons stated: he dislikes what he perceives as character destruction.

No. He only cares about characters he likes. He said so.

EDIT: Theron's too quick for me.

 

[Lynx]

I don't see why. Lynx has been arguing a principle. Had it been Janeway or somebody else, he'd still be pissed, and for the same reasons stated: he dislikes what he perceives as character destruction.

No. He only cares about characters he likes. He said so.

EDIT: Theron's too quick for me.

No!

You've got me wrong here. I'm against killing off main characters as a principle. I would have been as angry and annoyed if it had been Chakotay, Neelix, Riker, Worf or any of our favorites from the different Trek series.

 

[Lynx]

Well, the fans and their feelings seem to have very low priority when it comes to the writers, producers, authors and those in charge of the TV series and the books as well.

Ok, Lynx I'm sorry, but you can't be suprised that people are getting pissed when you say stuff like this. Alot of the authors, editors, writers ect. would probably be rather upset by this statement.

In that case, they should be a bit careful to kill off beloved main characters. If they do, they have to accept that the fans get angry and annoyed.

 

[Thrawn]

Well, the fans and their feelings seem to have very low priority when it comes to the writers, producers, authors and those in charge of the TV series and the books as well.

Ok, Lynx I'm sorry, but you can't be suprised that people are getting pissed when you say stuff like this. Alot of the authors, editors, writers ect. would probably be rather upset by this statement.

In that case, they should be a bit careful to kill off beloved main characters. If they do, they have to accept that the fans get angry and annoyed.

You keep saying "the fans". "The fans" don't think ANYTHING. About any particular creative decision, some fans like it, and some fans don't. You won't get complete agreement on *anything* around here, or on any other board you care to name.

You keep acting as though everyone is pissed off about this. It is a demonstrable fact that lots of people love this creative decision - myself included. So, by your logic, the fans LOVE Janeway's death... I mean, I do, and I'm a fan, so it has to be true that all the rest of the fans agree with me! Right?

Sigh.

Look: do the writers have to accept that *some* fans will get angry and annoyed? Yes! And they took that into account when they made the decision 2 and a half years ago. And, in fact, when they make any decision, they know they piss off someone. So you ranting right now was something they already decided was ok with them.

I did a long post last page you've apparently skipped about you thinking you can actually change someone's mind about this (you can't), but let me add this to the list of things you can't do - you can't speak for "the fans". Such an entity does not exist. Stop it.

 

[Bjoern]

Well, the fans and their feelings seem to have very low priority when it comes to the writers, producers, authors and those in charge of the TV series and the books as well.

Ok, Lynx I'm sorry, but you can't be suprised that people are getting pissed when you say stuff like this. Alot of the authors, editors, writers ect. would probably be rather upset by this statement.

In that case, they should be a bit careful to kill off beloved main characters. If they do, they have to accept that the fans get angry and annoyed.

I am a fan but neither annoyed nor angry. I applaud the editors and authors for their choices which I think have all in all made reading the novels a much more satisfying and complete experience.

 

[DimesDan]

Does that mean this? (I did a google search... :/ )

or

Yep, those are spit-takes. (How would this act be described on the other side of the pond?)

In all honesty, I'm aware of the act, but never heard of it called that. Ours is a simple land!

 

[JD]

You what, the more I think about it, I really am kinda glad they decided to actually kill a TV show character. IMO it really was the logical next step for the evolution of the books, and I really think knowing that they did it once, has added a whole new sense of danger to the books that wasn't there before.

 

[DimesDan]

You what, the more I think about it, I really am kinda glad they decided to actually kill a TV show character. IMO it really was the logical next step for the evolution of the books, and I really think knowing that they did it once, has added a whole new sense of danger to the books that wasn't there.

I fully agree with that comment JD, it pretty much reminded of when Chewie had that fraking moon land on him, uptill then, we pretty much knew that any of the major players in the Star Wars universe were safe but this event meant that anyone could be the next character to kick the bucket. So the death of Admiral Janeway is a similar watershed moment and that all bets are off. And before Sacrifice was released, I was all for Luke being killed and not Mara as I thought that could have made for a better story in the tail end of Legacy.

May I ask and this is pretty much aimed at Mr Mack as he wrote Destiny; did you ever consider killing Picard at any point in the Trilogy?

 

[TheAlmanac]

Between Janeway, Data, and Tucker (i.e. "dead now," "not dead now," and "wasn't really dead"), you'd think someone would be able to find a tie-in which makes them happy...

Perhaps I haven't been hanging out here long enough.

 

[Semah]

I don't see why. Lynx has been arguing a principle. Had it been Janeway or somebody else, he'd still be pissed, and for the same reasons stated: he dislikes what he perceives as character destruction.

No. He only cares about characters he likes. He said so.

EDIT: Theron's too quick for me.

No!

You've got me wrong here. I'm against killing off main characters as a principle. I would have been as angry and annoyed if it had been Chakotay, Neelix, Riker, Worf or any of our favorites from the different Trek series.

Except not:

Since I don't have the same affection for the characters in those books as I have for the VOY, TNG and DS9 characters, it might be easier to accept possible "changes" in those books, if such changes occur.

 

[Paris]

No. He only cares about characters he likes. He said so.

EDIT: Theron's too quick for me.

No!

You've got me wrong here. I'm against killing off main characters as a principle. I would have been as angry and annoyed if it had been Chakotay, Neelix, Riker, Worf or any of our favorites from the different Trek series.

Except not:

Since I don't have the same affection for the characters in those books as I have for the VOY, TNG and DS9 characters, it might be easier to accept possible "changes" in those books, if such changes occur.

oooohhhhhh! SNAP

 

[LightningStorm]

Except that what Lynx is talking about in those two posts are different things. The first he's talking about main characters from the TV shows that appeared on screen. The latter about SCE specifically in which the characters aren't 'favorites' from the main Star Trek aired episodes. When talking tie-in fiction there is a distinction there.

Not to mention something being "easier to accept" doesn't mean the initial reaction is any different.

 

[Trent Roman]

Indeed. Lynx has been quite clear about whom he extends his aegis to; you don't have to agree with that, but he's certainly not cherry-picking who deserves to live and who doesn't.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Lynx]

Ok, Lynx I'm sorry, but you can't be suprised that people are getting pissed when you say stuff like this. Alot of the authors, editors, writers ect. would probably be rather upset by this statement.

In that case, they should be a bit careful to kill off beloved main characters. If they do, they have to accept that the fans get angry and annoyed.

You keep saying "the fans". "The fans" don't think ANYTHING. About any particular creative decision, some fans like it, and some fans don't. You won't get complete agreement on *anything* around here, or on any other board you care to name.

You keep acting as though everyone is pissed off about this. It is a demonstrable fact that lots of people love this creative decision - myself included. So, by your logic, the fans LOVE Janeway's death... I mean, I do, and I'm a fan, so it has to be true that all the rest of the fans agree with me! Right?

Sigh.

Look: do the writers have to accept that *some* fans will get angry and annoyed? Yes! And they took that into account when they made the decision 2 and a half years ago. And, in fact, when they make any decision, they know they piss off someone. So you ranting right now was something they already decided was ok with them.

I did a long post last page you've apparently skipped about you thinking you can actually change someone's mind about this (you can't), but let me add this to the list of things you can't do - you can't speak for "the fans". Such an entity does not exist. Stop it.

No, I didn't skip your previous post. I just thought that I've made my statements clear already but if you want some comments on it, then I'll give it to you.

I do think that it's a bit arrogant to dismiss the fans of Janeway as some "small minority" whose opinions are irrelevant.

And even if they were, it's still arrogant to totally neglect their feelings. After all, they are fans and potential buyers of the books.

I also disagree with you about your statement that killing off Janeway was "for the best of the relaunch". I think that it was a bad and downright stupid move which will make many fans stop buying the books and also prevent fans of Janeway to start buying the books if they haven't done that before.

And yes, I'm p***ed off by the fact that those in charge doesn't care about if they make many fans angry and upset. It's the same s****y, arrogant, superior attitude which those in charge of the TV series did show up when they destroyed the character Kes in "Fury" and gave the J/C:ers the finger with the Seven-Chakotay thing in "Endgame". I useed to think that those responsible for the books had a better understanding for the fans and cared more for the characters than berman's gang but obviously I was wrong.

OK, I might not be able to change the minds of those in charge because they simply don't care but at least I can state my opinion about it which is exactly what I'm doing.

And believe me, this debate is far from over, it has just started.

The point is that many ardent fans of Janeway (and I don't think that they are just a "small minority") don't know yet that Janeway is killed off permanently, they still believe that it's some kind of stunt and that she will be back in the near future.