Janeway Blowing Up the Caretaker Array...

[Guy Gardener]

^^
The Kazon didn't own the planet. They had an outpost there, that's all and they were probably under siege from other Kazon sects, otherwise they could have solved the water problem by sending a ship to the nearest icy planet and get some chunks of ice to make water of (for themselves and their needs, not for the whole planet).

Now, why didn't the US and the British let the Communists take over in Korea? Why did the US intervene in Europe in WWII instead of just fighting Japan? Why did the US and Nato react against Milosevic's atrocities? Didn't it had something to do with preventing certain powers to simply take the right to conquer and salvage?

As for no allies, we don't know how the Ocampa on Suspiria's array reacted when they heard about their old homeworld being in danger. They might have intervened and since the Ocampa did have resources for five years plus the knowledge of the Caretaker, they might have used that to come up with something against the rather small group of Kazon-Ogla which were on the planet.

Um, you're just repeating yourself.

Cogent arguments were formed against all those points but you just reaffirmed your position with the same exact data that was already ably swatted.

The Kazon did own the planet. They had a refinery and a shop. Every one in that region of space, not just the Kazon, bought cormaline off these guys.

PARIS: Why would anyone want to live in a place like this?
NEELIX: The rich cormaline deposits are very much in demand.
CHAKOTAY: The Ocampa use it for barter?
NEELIX: Not the Ocampa. The Kazon-Ogla.
JANEWAY: The Kazon-Ogla? Who are the Kazon-Ogla?
NEELIX: They are. Kazon sects control this part of the quadrant. Some have food, some have ore, some have water. They all trade and they all kill each other for it.
JANEWAY: I thought you said the Ocampa had our people.

The word is control. the other word is quadrant. They control this region of quarter of the galaxy which this planet resides within. if that control is shuffled between different kazon sects that's one thing, but if an outside force acted upon these "people" well you'd see a little bit more unity until the current threat was dispensed with.

The lack of water might have had something to do with their mining operation making recycling impossible, if water was used as a coolant. Meanwhile everything neelix ate, drank and wore was recyled poop and urine. So yes, fresh water would be frakking beautiful.

A thousand years is a long time. Maybe we should assure the Italians that we respect all the territories owned and maintained by the Roman Empire and that all that all those formerly Roman lands and dominion should be returned to them? Same with the turks, the Russians and English.... Oh and lets not forget to kick whitey out of the US because it is after all the Indians homeland and their rights and ownership predate the conquest of that countries current masters.

Korea was a UN Police action. America might have been the driving force completely but, they pretended the moral conviction to do right was a global concern, what ever "right" might mean after better dead than red?

 

[Praetor]

I'd like to point this out again, because I think it's really a correct and succinct assessment:

I'd like to call attention to the fact that Janeway was also performing a self-defensive maneuver with the demolition of the Array. Her ship had been pounded to within an inch of destruction by the Kazon just moments ago; Chakotay's ship had already been lost. Why? Because the Kazon wanted the Array. There'd be little hope of survival as long as the Kazon thought Janeway stood between them and the Array. So Janeway's options always were, retreat and let the Kazon have the Array, and then limp home - or blow up the station, and then limp home. There never was Option C, of using the Array for cross-galaxy travel; Janeway would have been pulverized before she could have attempted that.

It really becomes nothing but an issue of why Janeway did the "optional extra" of blowing up the Array, then. It had many benefits: it weakened the Kazon, it made Janeway look mean and powerful and not such easy prey after all, and it stopped the senile, erratic and dangerous antics of the Caretaker for good. Why not do it?

Timo Saloniemi

And, I'd add that Janeway didn't try to help the Ocampa for similar reasons; it wasn't particularly advantageous and she wasn't in a very good position to do so anyway.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Destroying Kazon resources because they might prove to be a threat in later days?

She might as well have handed out small pox blankets.

Very petty and not Starfleet.

Imagine she felt the concern to exterminate any potential threat? How Minority report of her?

Starfleet is not petty, it's noble.

Peace is worth the risk?

Besides if if she really wanted to 'save' the ocampa she'd have bombed the shit out of the Kazons cormaline mines and refinery on her way out of the system, which would have been the dick move of a terrorist and comparable to the IRA without the moral compass pointing true.

 

[Praetor]

Yeah, point taken.

I think, basically, Janeway felt that she'd screwed up by interfering with the Caretaker, and destroying the array and then running away (rather than not destroying it and running away, as, like Timo points out, there really was no opition C) was the only way to balance that back out.

Perhaps Janeway thought she could use the vaunted Starfleet diplomacy on the Kazon and thus didn't bother to drive the Kazon from Ocampa... after destroying one of their colony ships?

 

[Guy Gardener]

She did destroy one of their colony ships.

There really should have been some consequences with that.

America has been apeshit at everyone for the last decade because a pair of buildings fell over.

The ogla didn't give a shit, or mention squat next they met in season 2. Ker was just shooting at Chuckles for giggles more so than some vengeance kick, but lets not forget he needed his psycho merit badge... Why has this never reminded me of Scalping before?

Sure it was a colony ship, but how many people were at work in the mines at the time? Was there a "city" (shanty/caravan park) on the surface (which Kim also didn't notice when he was scanning for lifeforms, but these people are masters of camouflage remember.)? Somewhere Neelix should have taken janeway if he just wasn't after stealing his girlfriend from the men who owned her that was more in line with a Kazon Civil service rather than the grumpy bastard at the top of the totem who can be as damn autocratic as he is wont to.

Captain Ransom chose option C, as well as the dozens and dozens of other ships full of crews the Caretaker raped that Neelix mentioned in the pilot. They all ran away. These Kazon and Nacene arguments over the salvage vs will and testiment of a local resources was not Starfleets concern. And I do mean that the array was as much a commodity as the Ocampans who would have made better food than slaves if you could acquire enough breeding pairs.

Natural development and the balance of power were cornholed.