What a lovely image you paint!
Janeway as mother
- Thread starter Gotham Central
- Start date
I've made the argument that Tom is her love child.
Owen Paris knocks up a Junior officer who is completely unwilling to keep their baby, so they foster it off to Owen's wife, who had been bored and lonely, becuase her husband is away in space always.
Owen Paris knocks up a Junior officer who is completely unwilling to keep their baby, so they foster it off to Owen's wife, who had been bored and lonely, becuase her husband is away in space always.
(Reacting to OP)
I’m not sure I agree with that analysis. Sexism in reaction to female characters cuts both ways. Make them too feminine you are accused of stereotyping, make them too masculine you’re accused of only being able to portray strong women by masculinizing them. Either way you’re being judged against a person’s opinion of what a female character should be.
Second, Janeway WAS incredibly respected. The way Seven saw her wasn’t much different from the way Ro saw Picard. The crew always deferred to her as a leader and it wasn’t all matriarchal attachment other than with Seven.
I’m not sure Janeway could have shown protectiveness for her crew without it being perceived as maternal.
We need to stop rigidly judging strong females by some kind of femininity litmus test. Regardless of what color you prefer the strip to turn, you’re forcing your own feminine ideal on someone else.
I’m not sure I agree with that analysis. Sexism in reaction to female characters cuts both ways. Make them too feminine you are accused of stereotyping, make them too masculine you’re accused of only being able to portray strong women by masculinizing them. Either way you’re being judged against a person’s opinion of what a female character should be.
Second, Janeway WAS incredibly respected. The way Seven saw her wasn’t much different from the way Ro saw Picard. The crew always deferred to her as a leader and it wasn’t all matriarchal attachment other than with Seven.
I’m not sure Janeway could have shown protectiveness for her crew without it being perceived as maternal.
We need to stop rigidly judging strong females by some kind of femininity litmus test. Regardless of what color you prefer the strip to turn, you’re forcing your own feminine ideal on someone else.
Well, growing up, I've thought of Picard as a father figure.. a "don't bring me your petty BS" type of father... but a father none the less.. He was patient, taught the younger crew how to be the best, listened.. etc. There are many ways to be a captain, but the best in my estimation, is to be the father/mother of the crew.. There is a certain amount of detachment, perhaps to much when dealing with captains like Jelico.. but a captain cares about his ship and crew, and wants the best for them. He/she/it also has decades of experinace, and most of a willingness to sheapard and teach the next generation..
Now a Janeway, a female captain.. Yes she was maternal, like above posts said, She was a detached captain, but the situation waranted a different mode of captain.. more of a parent.. this is good just for Her own sanity!! She needed compainonship of her own or she'd go bonkers.. Captains usually don't freind the crew, they may have a friend in the crew, like a first officer or doctor who she can interact at her/his level.. but the crew in general are usally kept at arms length..
Now a thing on females.. A strong female doesn't have to be masculine or feminine, they can just be who they want to be.. If a female wants to dress in 6 inch heels and a revealing dress because she likes herself and has no problem flaunting it.. than so be it! On the other hand if they want to dress masculine, its up to them..
Now a Janeway, a female captain.. Yes she was maternal, like above posts said, She was a detached captain, but the situation waranted a different mode of captain.. more of a parent.. this is good just for Her own sanity!! She needed compainonship of her own or she'd go bonkers.. Captains usually don't freind the crew, they may have a friend in the crew, like a first officer or doctor who she can interact at her/his level.. but the crew in general are usally kept at arms length..
Now a thing on females.. A strong female doesn't have to be masculine or feminine, they can just be who they want to be.. If a female wants to dress in 6 inch heels and a revealing dress because she likes herself and has no problem flaunting it.. than so be it! On the other hand if they want to dress masculine, its up to them..
1) Janeway & Paris did not have sex on the human point of view but in their animal form, they have mated/copulated.
2) It wasn't Janeway who abandonned her kids - she had no say, besides in view of her physilogical state - but Chakotay who took the decision to let them behind, a so called "command decision", which arranged him well in my opinion. I mean, imagine for a moment that he decided to bring them on board, that the Doctor managed to give them a human form? Well, even if there was no loving sentiment (=as a couple) known between them, given their personalities, Janeway and Paris would have wanted to assume the consequences of their unexpected mating and raise together the 3 kiddies, what could have been really awkward for Chakotay and B'Elena at least => when you have a crush for someone and that you want to attract her/his attention, you do not particularly want to see the said person you love spending time with someone else, especially if this someone is quite attractive because of the serious risk that the relationship becomes serious. For Chakotay, there would have been no consequence as seeing there was nothing between him and Janeway except a light flirting rapport even if from his side, he was really interested to pursue tis flirting to something more serious but for B'Elena... . Plus, to imagine the same B'Elena help to raise J/P's children, with her psychopath mind/behaviour, I'm cold in the back!
). 3) It seemed to me that Janeway was considered as a Mommy Captain by the whole crew (particularly Harry and Naomie) except of course Chakotay and Tuvok.
1) Janeway & Paris did not have sex on the human point of view but in their animal form, they have mated/copulated.
2) It wasn't Janeway who abandoned her kids - she had no say, besides in view of her physilogical state - but Chakotay who took the decision to let them behind, a so called "command decision", which arranged him well in my opinion. I mean, imagine for a moment that he decided to bring them on board, that the Doctor managed to give them a human form? Well, even if there was no loving sentiment (=as a couple) known between them, given their personalities, Janeway and Paris would have wanted to assume the consequences of their unexpected mating and raise together the 3 kiddies, what could have been really awkward for Chakotay and B'Elena at least => when you have a crush for someone and that you want to attract her/his attention, you do not particularly want to see the said person you love spending time with someone else, especially if this someone is quite attractive because of the serious risk that the relationship becomes serious. For Chakotay, there would have been no consequence as seeing there was nothing between him and Janeway except a light flirting rapport even if from his side, he was really interested to pursue tis flirting to something more serious but for B'Elena... . Plus, to imagine the same B'Elena help to raise J/P's children, with her psychopath mind/behaviour, I'm cold in the back!
3) It seemed to me that Janeway was considered as a Mommy Captain by the whole crew (particularly Harry and Naomie) except of course Chakotay and Tuvok.
1) I pasted a description of how Salamanders on Earth have sex. The Boys randomly spray whereever, then the girls lurk around soaking up lost and abandoned free floating sperms all over the place 'till they are gorged. Space Salamanders who used to be human, might procreate more like we do, but I thought it was interesting that no one before this, asked how do salamanders bang? Male Salamanders do not even have penises... So neither did Tom. Did his tongue fall out before or after his penis fell off. Oh no. If they started frakking while they were both still partially human, did his wang snap off mid coitus?
2) Neelix had transporter cancer. They turned back and headed to Talaxian space. That's a 6 month detour. They figured out a cure to that insect bite Janeway got marooned for, and turned back after 6 months, to go get her. They wasted a year recovering the Captain, passing the same groups of planets, friendly and unfriendly three times. (There's story potential there.)
It took Janeway and Paris three days to get back to humaniform, and then she makes a rape joke. Overruling Chakotay and going back for her babies if she really wanted to, wouldn't have been her worst command decision.
Janeway abandoning those children is probably why Q felt comfortable asking her to be his baby momma. She's not going to freak out, reversing all promises and expectations, demanding her maternal rights be re-initiated and respected. Squat and run.
3) Captain's Assistant is a way of telling an annoying child to be somewhere else, very far away, completing busy work, without hurting the child's feelings. Naomi might have been dim.
I understand you OP, however I think its sad that society is so sexist that the role of motherhood is looked down on, so if a fictional character is placed in such a role who is in a leadership position it is viewed as a disadvantage. So what if any captain plays a paternal or maternal role as captain, why is it something to sneer at? I believe Picard should have been more fatherly in his role, they were on that blasted ship for 15 years!
Being parental would not make a captain weak, any good parent would dig their eyes out to protect their family.
Edit - Sorry did not realise this thread was an old one
Last edited:
Janeway was somewhat distant and aloof from the crew, though she definitely cared about their welfare.
I think she saw herself as a sort of mother, at least for B’lanna, Kes, and Seven. She didn’t have that sort of relationship with Tom, Tuvok or Chakotay.
I think she saw herself as a sort of mother, at least for B’lanna, Kes, and Seven. She didn’t have that sort of relationship with Tom, Tuvok or Chakotay.
I rather think that Janeway not only considered herself as the mother of indisciplined children who were B'Lelena, Seven and Tom but as their mentor too (as Chakotay of said about Tom and Seven, they were her personal projects).
Kes was more her dreamt surrogate daughter.
As for Tuvok and Chakotay, come one, the first was an very old (he couldhave been her father and even her grand-father in age and wisdom) / loyal friend Janeway can relied on and the second was the same age than Janeway and even maybe a little older, who acted as her XO.
As for the distance she imposed, as Captain, she was forced to do it. That being said, I always thought that Chakotay was more distant than her the a great part of the crew.
Kes was more her dreamt surrogate daughter.
As for Tuvok and Chakotay, come one, the first was an very old (he couldhave been her father and even her grand-father in age and wisdom) / loyal friend Janeway can relied on and the second was the same age than Janeway and even maybe a little older, who acted as her XO.
As for the distance she imposed, as Captain, she was forced to do it. That being said, I always thought that Chakotay was more distant than her the a great part of the crew.
She's distant at times, but I wouldn't consider her "aloof" at all, especially compared to other captains like Picard, who was unapproachable by anyone other than his inner circle(and he was even aloof with some of them), and Sisko, who seemed to not like his crew a lot of the time, or was often cold towards them.
Janeway is pretty warm with everyone, and very hands-on. She says hi to people, goes on lots of away missions, knows everyone's name, and is always at the center of problem solving efforts. For instance, when there's a problem in engineering, she often goes down there herself, or wherever it may be.
Janeway is pretty warm with everyone, and very hands-on. She says hi to people, goes on lots of away missions, knows everyone's name, and is always at the center of problem solving efforts. For instance, when there's a problem in engineering, she often goes down there herself, or wherever it may be.
