James Cameron's "Avatar" (grading and discussion)

[Kegg]

Avatar won't spawn anything lasting because it can't. It was written as a one-off piece that doesn't stand up to reflection.

Your definition of 'spawning anything' seems to mean spin-off material, like the reams and reams of stuff that Stargate had. I think it can be safely said Avatar will have a sequel - this has been confirmed - and it may have other spin-off stuff. Like a third movie. Which would be enough. We'll see how viable the Avatar brand is, but frankly it's reached a success that Stargate in its almost two decades of existence could only dream of.

Jersey Shore has generated far more buzz than Rome but people are tuning in for the spectacle of it. Does that mean a spray-on tan and a semi-retarded attitude outweighs good writing?

The quoted segment is claiming nothing about the respective quality of Stargate vis-a-vis Avatar, and was entirely about the possibility of sequels or TV shows set in that universe. Unless you're saying Jersey Shore and/or Rome had spin-offs/spin-off potential, this is an irrelevant statement.

 

[gturner]

Rome has the potential for an almost infinite number of spinoffs, including most of Western culture. Jersey Shore is the bottom of the barrel of reality shows.

Stargate didn't depend on making you hate yourself and your culture. Avatar went for the cheap shot which only works once, at least among the proportion of the public that doesn't hate themselves. Watch the review from the 70-minute Phantom Menace guy. He nails it pretty well. Avatar was an enjoyable film that overdid the villains' evil and presented the natives as loveable Disney characters. It has no legs.

 

[Kegg]

Rome has the potential for an almost infinite number of spinoffs, including most of Western culture. Jersey Shore is the bottom of the barrel of reality shows.

Are any spin-offs considered, though? Otherwise, no dice, the reference makes no sense. Even with that it's a stretch.

Stargate didn't depend on making you hate yourself and your culture.

Yeah, it's a trifle safe like that. It'd also be fair to say Avatar requires you not to hate yourself personally, but be critical of society and certain directions it's in. Those aren't the same thing. In that respect it is a film that I'm sure appeals - or at least is designed to appeal - to those of an enviromentally conscious mindset.

Avatar went for the cheap shot which only works once,

We'll see. As the detractors point out Avatar isn't the first film to take this line. It's not even the first film in the 2009 year; District 9 was also financially succesful while exploring similar themes. Dances With Wolves made lots of money and took home the goddamn Oscar. People may be more resceptive to this kind of film then you believe, perhaps, or maybe not, I don't know.

It has no legs.

You really must help clarify what legs are. If you mean it won't be spun off, well, we know that isn't true: But if you mean it'll still have a loyal fanbase ten years down the line, well, then I have no idea. Avatar may be the next Star Wars or it may be the next Matrix; but it's definitely not the next Stargate.

 

[T'Baio]

I don't run and hide from any mention of the plot. I've been defending the film from day one.

 

[stj]

If the humans ("us") getting their asses kicked makes you mad instead of glad, the movie isn't going to work. If the hero being saved by Eywa and his girl friend makes you feel he's less than heroic, again the movie isn't going to work. If the hero actually being reborn, better, doesn't appeal to something deep inside, again the movie isn't going to work.

It's embarrassing (for most) to explain why they get so ticked off at seeing the humans whipped, as it should be, so we get pages and pages of garbage about the weak plot.
Everyone who cares to know, knows why Avatar is accepted or rejected.

 

[T'Baio]

You know, some people don't like the film, and I get that. Things like this aren't always for everyone. Some people don't like being just swept away in a simple (and I don't mean that negatively, in any way) romantic fairy tale. Some people need overly intellectual and realistically mundane. Some people find it difficult to be swept up in dragons or wizards or simple morality tales. And that's okay.

I, for one, love being swept away to another world where I can feel the same joy I felt as a six year old, breathless at the experience of a beauty I can only experience in a cinema. Not intellectually engaging myself, asking why the Imperial only sent a handful of retards to look for the plans to the most important thing in the universe. I just smile and enjoy. I feel bad for people who can't.

 

[Trekker4747]

If Avatar is so brilliant, how come everyone runs and hides at the mention of its plot? Avatar won't spawn anything lasting because it can't. It was written as a one-off piece that doesn't stand up to reflection.

Star Wars

 

[Lt. Trull]

ditto.... well spoken T'Baio... and that goes for me too...

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

In the original Star Wars movie Vader clearly reported to and was under the command of Tarkin. People who watch the film aren't responsible to insert Lucas's later claims, retcons and explanations into it; it is what it is and it stands alone.

For people who are interested in how Avatar was done - and I'm certainly a lot more interested in that than in reading the same repetitious kvetching about trivia - here's one pretty fascinating source online: Link

 

[JacksonArcher]

Avatar received 9 Academy Award nominations this morning, including Best Picture.

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=62903

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I see Star Trek got shut out on "creative" nominations, which I guess was to be expected - you've got at least two "popcorn flicks" in the expanded Best Pictures list already.

For Best Picture I think "The Hurt Locker" has the edge, though the Academy's fully capable of going for "Precious." Best Director could be either Cameron or Bigelow.

 

[Trekker4747]

Avatar, Ingourious Basterds and District 9 all nominated for best picture?

WTF?!

 

[JacksonArcher]

It's pretty awesome. I would agree that The Hurt Locker has the edge but I think Avatar could win Best Picture and Kathryn Bigelow could win Best Director. Or James Cameron could win Best Director and The Hurt Locker could win Best Picture, but I think Bigelow will win Best Director. She has the momentum of the DGA on her side, and yes, I'm basically just repeating what CaptainCanada said.

It's really awesome that District 9 received the numerous nominations that it did, including Best Picture. Star Trek received four nominations and it was great to see the Academy Award repent on its aversion to science-fiction this year.

The biggest victim in all of this? Moon. It was better than all of them.

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

The biggest victim in all of this? Moon. It was better than all of them.

Probably true.

Anyway, is this the first time that two science fiction films are nominated for Best Picture in the same year?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Three, really - Up is just as skiffy as the other two. Chalk it up to doubling the size of the list; a great percentage of the big-budget crowd-pleasers released every year are some flavor of fantasy.

 

[Blue_Trek]

In the original Star Wars movie Vader clearly reported to and was under the command of Tarkin. People who watch the film aren't responsible to insert Lucas's later claims, retcons and explanations into it; it is what it is and it stands alone.

Vader was under orders from the Emperor to temporarily defer to Tarkin until the Battle Station was complete and fully tested, similar to how he sent Darth Maul to aid the Trade Federation in TPM. Tarkin was a competent leader and there was no need for the Emperor to micromanage the project by having Vader usurp Tarkin's command (as was necessary in ROTJ). It seems that some of Tarkin's underlings thought this deference extended to them as well, which Vader was quick to demonstrate was clearly not the case with General Motti.

A New Hope no longer exists as a stand alone movie.

I am glad Avatar is nominated so heavily, I really hope it wins, since Star Trek got snubbed. It would be really good if a sci-fi movie that is like Star Wars finally wins best picture.
Think of what it would mean for the genre we all enjoy, sci-fi wins a Oscar and is the highest grossing movie of all time. It means we get more movies of this type good and bad, but the more that get made the more chances there will be a good one in the mix.

Avatar cartoon ending http://www.megavideo.com/?v=YUVSEY6F

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

In the original Star Wars movie Vader clearly reported to and was under the command of Tarkin. People who watch the film aren't responsible to insert Lucas's later claims, retcons and explanations into it; it is what it is and it stands alone.

Vader was under orders from the Emperor to temporarily defer to Tarkin until the Battle Station was complete and fully tested, similar to how he sent Darth Maul to aid the Trade Federation in TPM. Tarkin was a competent leader and there was no need for the Emperor to micromanage the project by having Vader usurp Tarkin's command (as was necessary in ROTJ). It seems that some of Tarkin's underlings thought this deference extended to them as well, which Vader was quick to demonstrate was clearly not the case with General Motti.

That's not in the movie or even implied in any way in the movie, so it's bullshit in terms of critiquing the film as a film. Sorry.

A New Hope no longer exists as a stand alone movie.

Rubbish. Anyone can watch Star Wars all by itself on cable, DVD, any number of formats. It was made as a single film, it exists as a single film, and the proposition that because sequels were made that appreciating it or understanding it and critiquing it as a movie is now dependent upon exposure to the rest of the material that was added later is fanboi nonsense and special pleading; it's not a tenable position.

 

[Blue_Trek]

Dennis we are drifting off topic, I could keep responding, but this is an Avatar thread not a Star Wars thread. It is enough to say, well I fully understand your viewpoint, I just disagree with your perspective.

 

[Kegg]

Avatar, Ingourious Basterds and District 9 all nominated for best picture?

WTF?!

I never thought both Avatar and District 9 would be nominated. I had hoped D9 might be nominated; and then when Avatar was the front runner I wrote it off. I'm overjoyed, but hey, remember what happened when two actresses from All About Eve competed for the Best Actress Oscar?

Some other girl got it. Avatar/District 9 could split the sci-fi vote, or D9 may just be a token choice to round up the numbers.

New Hope no longer exists as a stand alone movie.

While true, it was really not the point of the analogy I was using. When comparing Quaritch to Vader I meant the Vader of the original film; to whom he is completely analogous. Yes there's all this stuff that got added later, but the next Avatar film could add material about Quaritch's abusive childhood and so what?

There is a manner Vader was depicted and concieved in that film, and it is both very memorable and exceptionally shallow. I don't think anyone who likes Vader then can demand depth as a necessity for popcorn movie villains with the clearest of consciences (they'd have to claim not to like him until, say, the retcon in Empire Strikes Back. Or whatever.)

 

[Tyberius]

And don't we all like films like that to a point?

Not past a certain price point. I never saw BLUES BROS -- even though I enjoyed ANIMAL HOUSE and KENTUCKY FRIED MOVIE -- strictly because I thought it was absurd to spend 30mil on a car crash comedy and wouldn't support that. Ditto for LEGAL EAGLES, though that was like 40something mil for a legal/arson romantic comedy, if I remember the trailer right.

Lemme get this straight...you will not watch a movie because of the amount somebody else spent on producing it?

So you are the arbiter of good business sense for the movie industry and will bend them to your will? Nevermind that the production budgets are largely fiction anyway and are adjusted for tax purposes so the movie only just breaks even.