James Cameron has lost it

[Caliburn24]

I will see the sequels no question.

But I have to confess to having questions. First where is the drama or conflict that forms the crux of the story going to come from? A human fleet arrives to retake Pandora? Our heroes(even with the help of Deus Ex Machina Planet) were barely able to hold off a handful of corporate mercenaries with all the tactical sense of first graders. When true soldiers come who don't mind clearing some areas with nukes to get the unobtanium it is going to take some very convoluted story logic to give our heroes a fighting chance.

Second, are Jake and Neytiri going to be the main characters? Their natural story arc would seem to be over, they are both fully actualized committed characters now. They are not going to grow or change unless something drastic happens(one of them dies or something). And that makes them even more boring than they were in the first movie.

Third, are we stuck on Pandora for all of these movies? That seems rather limiting. But the idea of Na'vi space travel seems a little outlandish as well.

 

[RoJoHen]

The Matrix sequels were extremely well-made and looked fantastic. It's their stories that were awful. I doubt filming them separately would have changed that.

But that's just it, the story were written to span two movies instead of each movie having to stand on its own merit with its own story.

Fair enough. I guess it just depends on the story one wants to tell. Could Cameron film 3 sequels simultaneously while still having them all be standalone stories?

 

[Gepard]

First where is the drama or conflict that forms the crux of the story going to come from? A human fleet arrives to retake Pandora? Our heroes(even with the help of Deus Ex Machina Planet) were barely able to hold off a handful of corporate mercenaries with all the tactical sense of first graders. When true soldiers come who don't mind clearing some areas with nukes to get the unobtanium it is going to take some very convoluted story logic to give our heroes a fighting chance.

That's your conflict right there: the humans win. They come back, collapse Pandora's ecosystem and strip mine the whole planet. What do our heroes do now?

Granted, I doubt Cameron would go that dark (or stray so far form the first movie's winning formula), but there's an opportunity for some The Dark Knight-level sequelizing. Pound the heroes hard, break alliances, question loyalties, and at the end of it all, leave it so the best they can hope for is a moral victory. I'd watch the hell out of a movie like that.

 

[Kegg]

When true soldiers come who don't mind clearing some areas with nukes to get the unobtanium it is going to take some very convoluted story logic to give our heroes a fighting chance.

Like, how in fucking hell are a bunch of scrappy losers from the poor part of space going to take on the full might of a galactic empire and go toe to toe with the Emperor? Blowing up one measly Death Star is surely the start of their worries, not the end of it.

Really, though, that's the potential for sequels in a nutshell. We've far from exhausted the kinds of amoral methods of war the human race would be willing to use and that becomes the problem for the heroes to be scrappy underdogs against.

 

[MacLeod]

Yeah, let's see...

Guy makes the most successful movie in history, a worldwide success.

Guy figures that he can make three more without wearing out public interest.

Clearly he's nuts.

It's not like there have been long-running series based on films that were reasonably successful but not nearly so much so as Avatar - nothing like a formulaic series of movies about a British spy, for example, or ten creaky movies based on a cancelled space opera TV show...

Well sometimes perception is key, if you look at the Bond films, we'll have the 23rd Bond film this year it's 50th Anniversary year. Which equates to about 1 film every two years.

If there are 4 Avatar films in total by the time the last one comes out it'll be close to at least 8 years since the first one came out. Or on average one every two or so years.

 

[JarodRussell]

Unfortunately, I liked all the human characters more than the Na'vi characters. And I thought it was a bad choice to have Jake become a Na'vi at the end. He escaped into the "dream" world, instead of facing his problems in the real world. So if the next one takes place entirely in Na'vi world, I'd be less interested.

 

[Skywalker]

I wish I could lose it and still make millions upon millions of dollars.

 

[Captaindemotion]

^ If that's 'losing it', then I've 'got it' big time.

 

[doubleohfive]

I always love reading these threads where people bitch about movies they don't have to see.

Cameron's proved he's bankable. The man can do (and is doing) whatever the fuck he wants to.

Life is really terrible for all of you, isn't it?

 

[RoJoHen]

I think it's less a case of bitching (well, in some cases it's bitching) and more just wondering how he's going to pull it off. IMO, from how Avatar ended, a sequel doesn't really make sense, and yet, Cameron claims to be making 3 of them.

 

[doubleohfive]

Why wouldn't a sequel make sense because of the way Avatar ended?

 

[RoJoHen]

I felt like the the main character's story was finished, and I have no desire to see more of it.

To be fair, though, I didn't really like the movie at all, and I do not understand how it was so popular.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Why wouldn't a sequel make sense because of the way Avatar ended?

People assume that some how the story has to continue in a sequel, that we've only seen part of the story. When in reality you just have to use the same character(s) or setting.

 

[doubleohfive]

EDIT: Beat me to it Nerys Myk!

Who's to say the main character (Sully) has to be in the sequel?

I can only speak for myself regarding why I liked the film. I saw it at the Dome, in 3D about a week after it was released and pretty much was floored by how immersive and detailed and lush an experience the entire film was. Yeah Dances with Wolves in Space blah blah I don't care about that. The experience was what nailed it for me, and I'd happily spend the $20 again if the next film were just as immersive, just as detailed and lush.

 

[RoJoHen]

I watch films and TV for characters. If Sully isn't going to be in it, it's not a true sequel in my eyes.

As for the experience...yeah, it looked pretty, but that's about as good a reaction it's going to get from me. Not only do 3D glasses tint the screen and dull the colors (the movie is far prettier in 2D on my TV), they also give me a migraine about an hour after I leave the theater.

 

[Triple-F]

It all depends on what old stories he's read, or old tv series he's watched. Maybe he's cribbed together enough stolen plots to do three more movies?

Well, there’s a great idea right there that sounds just ripe for any micky mouse podcasters to do a couple of shows on.

 

[OmahaStar]

It all depends on what old stories he's read, or old tv series he's watched. Maybe he's cribbed together enough stolen plots to do three more movies?

Well, there’s a great idea right there that sounds just ripe for any micky mouse podcasters to do a couple of shows on.

So it's a perfect job for you.

 

[Snaploud]

It makes sense from a business perspective. Now is the time to do the negotiating. He'll never get a better deal, and it will cut down on production costs as well as save years of his time.

Also, it wouldn't surprise me if the scripts were already written, and Cameron just realized that it would make sense to split up the last script into two movies. The guy has been working on this stuff for a decade and a half, after all.

 

[Gojira]

I really enjoyed Avatar and if the sequels are good then he can makes as many as he wants.

 

[Data Holmes]

Yeah I loved the first movie as well, but I can't say I have any desire to see tons of sequels.

Maybe one, at the most.

Unnamed fan, following his hearing that paramount planed to make a second trek movie.

For my money, Avatar = stunning imagery (especially in 3D) so who gives a phlox about the characters or story. That's why I didn't mind that it was a ripoff of Pocohontas/Dances with Wolves/etc.

So let's say Avatar 2 explores the undersea environment of Pandora, Avatar 3 explores some other planet (or even dazzling places in outer space, like the Pillars of Creation), etc.

As long as the focus is always on creating some new visual extravaganza, I don't see why they would be any less successful than before. They've proven that you don't need brilliant writing or an original premise to make a billion dollars.

Cameron had a sub-five line quote either in a magazine or on a website during Avatar's opening week where he said that he wanted the universe of Avatar to become a "sandbox" for others to play in like Star Trek or Star Wars and that he had ideas for three more movies, a tv show, and at least one novel. He said that the three movies would focus on the Oceans of Pandora, the Moons of Pandora, and the Earth of the Avatar Universe. The novel would be the "prequel" to the Avatar movie and would serve as the "bible" for other creators to play in the universe. He didn't go into any details on his TV show idea.

It was certainly a neat visual experience, but I don't see the need to do it again. Even if I see the next Avatar (which is debatable at this point) in theaters, I doubt I'll see it in 3D. It just wasn't cool enough to warrant the extra money or the headache the 3D glasses gave me. And frankly, I think the movie is far more vibrant and colorful in 2D without the tinting effect of the glasses.

Cameron is using these movies to push filmmaking technology. From forcing theaters to upgrade their projection components, to pushing 48 or higher frames a min frame-rate. Remember that he is a technology nerd who just happens to like to make movies, and uses his movies to push the technology.

I always love reading these threads where people bitch about movies they don't have to see.

Cameron's proved he's bankable. The man can do (and is doing) whatever the fuck he wants to.

Life is really terrible for all of you, isn't it?

Indeed. Has he ever made a "flop"?