Umm...Daniel Craig?
James Bond: Multiple 007s
- Thread starter Norrin Radd
- Start date
Admiral Sir Miles Messervy (lights his pipe): "James, I need you to do a favor for me. I need you to go to America and use your license to kill. It's so secret that your current boss can't know."
007: "Yes, sir. Anything for you, sir, you know that."
Messervy: "I need you to go to Kansas City and assassinate someone. His code name is Trekker4747."
007: "Yes, sir. May I ask why?'
Messervy: "Yes. He claims that woman was in more movies than me. Everyone knows that I've been in at least 11!"
007: "Yes sir. But what about Robert Brown?"
Messervy (fiddles with his pipe, which has now gone out): "Gives the fans something to argue about."
I prefer to go with my theory that all the Bonds are actually robots created by the real James Bond and that he has made several different models to tell them apart and throw off the villains. MI6 and M don't seem to notice because they are part of the conspiracy.
Hey - it's more fun than just going with different actors playing a character role, right?
Hey - it's more fun than just going with different actors playing a character role, right?
I tend to believe that each bond lives the same 22 adventures in their life/ era.
Imagine Craigs bond facing off against a doctor no or goldfinger
doubleohfive
Fleet Admiral
I remember reading somewhere the producers thought about using this as an explanation for the various actors who would play Bond after Lazenby took on the role.
Unfortunately, it doesn't explain away that there would be three women named Moneypenny who happened to work for M at MI6.
Re: M
One of my favorite discussion points. Is Robert Brown's M the same M played by Bernard Lee (Admiral Sir Miles Messervy?) Or is it Admiral Hargreaves from The Spy Who Loved Me, who was promoted to be the next M? Or is he someone entirely different?
Unfortunately, it doesn't explain away that there would be three women named Moneypenny who happened to work for M at MI6.
Re: M
One of my favorite discussion points. Is Robert Brown's M the same M played by Bernard Lee (Admiral Sir Miles Messervy?) Or is it Admiral Hargreaves from The Spy Who Loved Me, who was promoted to be the next M? Or is he someone entirely different?
What we're actually seeing is 6 different alternate realities. EON is planning a "The five Bond's" movie. Connery will bring a flute, Moore will bring Jelly bellies and Dalton will be pissed.
Actually the original draft of the script had it that he'd had plastic surgery to change his appearance, as he was now too well known to the other side.
Not to mention two Major Boothroyds who both happened to be quartermaster. And I suppose "Felix Leiter" is a code name too, since we've seen seven of those.
That's a question that I find interesting too. I like to think it was Admiral Hargreaves but there is room for discussion there.
Of course, since Bond so willingly promotes his name in the most inappropriate occasions, effectively making him a famous secret agent (!), it only makes sense that the name is fake and devoid of actual information content beyond "If you are an enemy of Her Majesty, start trembling!". Felix Leiter is obviously the US counterpart...
Naturally, "M" and "Moneypenny" would similarly be codenames - although on the latter issue, we can also say that the current one is the daughter of the original.
So what if a later Bond lives a life that appears to include items and events from the past of an earlier Bond? That's items and events inherent in the role of James Bond, the fictional character - naturally, each new James Bond would have to memorize the backstory.
When Moore's Bond pays a visit to a certain grave and thus lures in a certain villain and disposes of him, that plays out equally well as "real sentiment" or "pure setup to trap Blofeld". Obviously, the villain would fall for the trap no matter what: if he thought there was only one Bond, he'd assume the agent had undergone surgery (he'd know!), and if he thought there was a succession of Bonds, he'd enjoy the chance to pop another one.
To really disprove this theory, one would need an outsider from the distant past who recognizes the current Bond. And no, the ex-wife who recognized Brosnan's Bond (and quickly and predictably perished) doesn't count, as she could have been this specific man's ex-wife, not James Bond's, if you see the difference...
Timo Saloniemi
Naturally, "M" and "Moneypenny" would similarly be codenames - although on the latter issue, we can also say that the current one is the daughter of the original.
So what if a later Bond lives a life that appears to include items and events from the past of an earlier Bond? That's items and events inherent in the role of James Bond, the fictional character - naturally, each new James Bond would have to memorize the backstory.
When Moore's Bond pays a visit to a certain grave and thus lures in a certain villain and disposes of him, that plays out equally well as "real sentiment" or "pure setup to trap Blofeld". Obviously, the villain would fall for the trap no matter what: if he thought there was only one Bond, he'd assume the agent had undergone surgery (he'd know!), and if he thought there was a succession of Bonds, he'd enjoy the chance to pop another one.
To really disprove this theory, one would need an outsider from the distant past who recognizes the current Bond. And no, the ex-wife who recognized Brosnan's Bond (and quickly and predictably perished) doesn't count, as she could have been this specific man's ex-wife, not James Bond's, if you see the difference...
Timo Saloniemi
James Bond is not a secret agent, his job title as a member of the Secret Intelligence Service is 'Intelligence Officer'.
Ian Fleming himself refers to Bond as a "secret agent" and a "spy" numerous times in his novels. So I think it's fair game to call him that.
As for the different actors, it's pretty clear that the film eras defined by each actor exist in their own independent continuities. Think of it as six distinct film series, each inspired by Ian Fleming's James Bond novels but independent of the others.
This absurd need to make everything "fit" together has all but destroyed the modern comic book: The Bond series is right to stay far, far, away from it.
RobertScorpio
Pariah
Reasons why he has to be the same guy:
- References in DAD to other movies, as far back as the early 1960s
- References in LTK and Moonraker to his wife, killed in OHMSS
- TWINE taking its title from the Bond family motto seen on Lazenby's clothing in OHMSS
- In Goldeneye, M refers to Bond as a dinosaur, a cold war relic. We are therefore expected to assume that he is the same Bond who fought with Russians in so many previous movies.
- Felix Leiter, Miss Moneypenny, Blofeld and M's assistant Tanner, who was played by Michael Kitchen and then Rory Kinnear, have all, like Bond, been played by different actors, just like Bond. There's never been any suggestion that they are all different characters. You just have to allow for recasting in a movie series that's been going on for nearly 50 years
- Charles Gray, Joe Don Baker and Maud Adams have all played two characters in Bond movies. Applying the strict rule that new actor = different character, surely we would have to say that returning actor = same character with new identity, surely? That the villainous general in TLD is the CIA man in Goldenye? Er, no, again, you just have to allow for the realities of the movie-making world and actors being re-hired.
Reasons Why He Must Be a Different Guy;
- In OHMSS, at the start 007 (played by Lazenby) says 'this never happened the other guy.' Never mind 'in-joke to the audience', the fourth wall has never come down in the Bond series! If he's referring to another guy, then he's a different Bond
- Also in OMHSS, Blofeld fails to recognise Bond, even though they previously encountered each other in the preceding movie, YOLT
- In DAF, the next movie, when Connery returns, at the start, M (or some other character) comments on his recent absence and says something along the lines of 'we can get along in your absence, you know.' Again, in-joke to the audience (at Connery's expense) bedamned, there has to be an explanation onscreen!
- Also in DAD, Connery Bond hunts down Blofeld but never mentions the fact that Blofeld murdered Lazenby Bond's wife in the previous movie. Some fans have commented on the ferocity with which Connery deals with the fake Blofeld at the start of the movie and put it down to his desire to avenge Tracy, but I find this hard to reconcile with his failure to mention her.
- Can anyone imagine Sean Connery wearing those dodgy safari suits Roger Moore used to wear?!
- For that matter, can you imagine any of the previous Bonds carrying out that action sequence from the start of Casino Royale?
- In Goldeneye, M is clearly meeting Bond for the first time in her new role and refers to him as a dinosaur. But in CR, M has clearly been in her role for some time, while Bond is a new 00 agent.
- I can't remember the sequence, but some Bonds were able to defuse nuclear bombs, while their successors weren't (of course, it could be that there were different types of bomb or designs involved)
- Bond's commander rank came from his having been a submarine commander. But the Bond of CR was an ex-SAS man.
At the end of the day, I don't think we are expected to believe that James Bond is a number of different men. There simply has never been any great degree of continuity in the movie series. You have to allow for a degree of rebooting, of glossing over changes in time and in matters behind the screen (different actors, writers, etc). But the 'different Bonds' theory is good fun and is actually as plausible as anything else in the franchise!
- References in DAD to other movies, as far back as the early 1960s
- References in LTK and Moonraker to his wife, killed in OHMSS
- TWINE taking its title from the Bond family motto seen on Lazenby's clothing in OHMSS
- In Goldeneye, M refers to Bond as a dinosaur, a cold war relic. We are therefore expected to assume that he is the same Bond who fought with Russians in so many previous movies.
- Felix Leiter, Miss Moneypenny, Blofeld and M's assistant Tanner, who was played by Michael Kitchen and then Rory Kinnear, have all, like Bond, been played by different actors, just like Bond. There's never been any suggestion that they are all different characters. You just have to allow for recasting in a movie series that's been going on for nearly 50 years
- Charles Gray, Joe Don Baker and Maud Adams have all played two characters in Bond movies. Applying the strict rule that new actor = different character, surely we would have to say that returning actor = same character with new identity, surely? That the villainous general in TLD is the CIA man in Goldenye? Er, no, again, you just have to allow for the realities of the movie-making world and actors being re-hired.
Reasons Why He Must Be a Different Guy;
- In OHMSS, at the start 007 (played by Lazenby) says 'this never happened the other guy.' Never mind 'in-joke to the audience', the fourth wall has never come down in the Bond series! If he's referring to another guy, then he's a different Bond
- Also in OMHSS, Blofeld fails to recognise Bond, even though they previously encountered each other in the preceding movie, YOLT
- In DAF, the next movie, when Connery returns, at the start, M (or some other character) comments on his recent absence and says something along the lines of 'we can get along in your absence, you know.' Again, in-joke to the audience (at Connery's expense) bedamned, there has to be an explanation onscreen!
- Also in DAD, Connery Bond hunts down Blofeld but never mentions the fact that Blofeld murdered Lazenby Bond's wife in the previous movie. Some fans have commented on the ferocity with which Connery deals with the fake Blofeld at the start of the movie and put it down to his desire to avenge Tracy, but I find this hard to reconcile with his failure to mention her.
- Can anyone imagine Sean Connery wearing those dodgy safari suits Roger Moore used to wear?!
- For that matter, can you imagine any of the previous Bonds carrying out that action sequence from the start of Casino Royale?
- In Goldeneye, M is clearly meeting Bond for the first time in her new role and refers to him as a dinosaur. But in CR, M has clearly been in her role for some time, while Bond is a new 00 agent.
- I can't remember the sequence, but some Bonds were able to defuse nuclear bombs, while their successors weren't (of course, it could be that there were different types of bomb or designs involved)
- Bond's commander rank came from his having been a submarine commander. But the Bond of CR was an ex-SAS man.
At the end of the day, I don't think we are expected to believe that James Bond is a number of different men. There simply has never been any great degree of continuity in the movie series. You have to allow for a degree of rebooting, of glossing over changes in time and in matters behind the screen (different actors, writers, etc). But the 'different Bonds' theory is good fun and is actually as plausible as anything else in the franchise!
It must have been an idea by Director Lee Tamehori who explained the multiple actors who have played James Bond with the "Code Name: James Bond." I don't think anyone else involved with the production would be serious about bringing back Sean Connery. No love is lost between Connery and the Broccolis. One of the reasons that Connery left was that he felt he deserved a higher percentage of the box office and wanted to be partners with Harry Saltzman and "Cubby" Broccoli according to Director Terrence Young. Plus there was Warhead scriptand thelawsuit that delayed the production of The Spy Who Loved Me in which we have Karl Stromberg of Stromberg Shipping Lines instead of SPECTRE and the remake of Thunderball in 1983.
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