J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

[CorporalClegg]

Would a movie without Khan have been more successful at the box office?

Maybe. As successful? Hard to say.

I think the inclusion of Khan muddled the plot more than helped it.

Not really.

And since Khan wasn't even used as a marketing tool to begin with, I don't see why it truly helped.

Hence Abrams's point.

Did the majority of fans "really" want Khan or was it more that Abrams and co. assumed that fans wanted Khan? I think a few people wanted him, but I think it's more the latter.

I did. But the decision to use Khan wasn't about the fans. It was about the non-fans. And even with the reveal as it was, it surely helped some:

"Grr. Arrg. I am super evil guy who's better at everything. My name is John Harrison."

"Who?"

"A long time ago in this same galaxy I was called 'Khan'."

"Oohhhhhh!"

Dramatic art always does this. Its remake mentality to push the old and familiar on to us is part of its nature.

FTFY

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Someone needs to tell this guy that we didn't get into SW as kids because it was "dark and gritty".

Yeah, I guess we just all hate The Empire Strikes Back now

Which is funny seeing as from what i can tell the general censuses is that A New Hope.

 

[JWPlatt]

I wondered if maybe King Daniel invented that quote just as parody. But there it is in the article. My respect for Cumberbatch just went up like a good stock to even jest that Abrams is a dickhead. Which he is. As with all humor, there has to be some truth for it to be funny and the article went on to illuminate Cumberbatch's play on that. Nice work all around, unless GFR is a parody site like Onion - I don't know..

If he truly thought Abrams was a dickhead, why would he want to work with him again? Supposedly, he's already signed on for Star Wars: Episode VII and has said he'd like to play Khan again.

Not that Cumberbatch meant any of it, and not that he and Abrams are anything but friendly, but do you really think the motion picture industry is full of people who don't think the people they work with are dickheads and still sign the contracts?

 

[Dukhat]

^Maybe, but you don't call someone a dickhead in public and then expect to ever work for them again. Unless the caller and the callee both know it's just a joke with no undertones of seriousness, which is exactly what this was. You're the one who implied that Cumberbatch was somehow actually thinking this, which is of course completely wrong.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

It's likely jest on his part. You can't throw insults like that unless you're legends like Sean Connery.

 

[JWPlatt]

^Maybe, but you don't call someone a dickhead in public and then expect to ever work for them again. Unless the caller and the callee both know it's just a joke with no undertones of seriousness, which is exactly what this was. You're the one who implied that Cumberbatch was somehow actually thinking this, which is of course completely wrong.

By "you're" I guess you mean me. Really? Do you also believe I wrote the article just to comment on it here? The thought you assign to me came from the article.

If Benedict Cumberbatch wasn’t such a good sport about Abrams’ comments, you could almost read his above quote as being visibly pissed at the 47-year-old director.

Shall we begin parsing the article that parsed Cumberbatch?

 

[Dukhat]

By "you're" I guess you mean me. Really? Do you also believe I wrote the article just to comment on it here? The thought you assign to me came from the article.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. I'm talking about this quote from you...

My respect for Cumberbatch just went up like a good stock to even jest that Abrams is a dickhead. Which he is. As with all humor, there has to be some truth for it to be funny and the article went on to illuminate Cumberbatch's play on that.

...which seems to imply that you think Cumberbatch was actually somehow deep down thinking Abrams is a dick, most likely because you feel that he is as well and you're taking BC's quote out of context to suit your own beliefs.

You're welcome to think Abrams is a dick all you want to. But there's no "truth" about BC thinking the same thing, even by using humor to disguise it.

 

[JWPlatt]

By "you're" I guess you mean me. Really? Do you also believe I wrote the article just to comment on it here? The thought you assign to me came from the article.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. I'm talking about this quote from you...

My respect for Cumberbatch just went up like a good stock to even jest that Abrams is a dickhead. Which he is. As with all humor, there has to be some truth for it to be funny and the article went on to illuminate Cumberbatch's play on that.

...which seems to imply that you think Cumberbatch was actually somehow deep down thinking Abrams is a dick, most likely because you feel that he is as well and you're taking BC's quote out of context to suit your own beliefs.

You're welcome to think Abrams is a dick all you want to. But there's no "truth" about BC thinking the same thing, even by using humor to disguise it.

It doesn't matter what I think. The article made the implication that you persist in confusing. I suspect the truth is that the statement resonates with enough people to be funny whether Cumberbatch thinks Abrams is a dickhead or not.

 

[BillJ]

...

You could at least stand by what you said which was that there must be some truth to Cumberbatch thinking Abrams was a dickhead even if he said it in joking.

 

[F. King Daniel]

If the rumours are true and Cumberbatch is the baddie in the new Star Wars trilogy, then I think it's safe to say he and Abrams are on very good terms.

 

[JWPlatt]

...

You could at least stand by what you said which was that there must be some truth to Cumberbatch thinking Abrams was a dickhead even if he said it in joking.

I've been quite clear that it's the article that suggests it. I also said Abrams is one. But I have not said Cumberbatch said it with any more intent than as a joke. I have said it resonates as humor because the truth in it is that there are enough people who do believe it's true, and Cumberbatch must at least be aware of that to make the joke. If it pleases you, think of it as Cumberbatch mocking those of us who believe Abrams is a dickhead.

If the rumours are true and Cumberbatch is the baddie in the new Star Wars trilogy, then I think it's safe to say he and Abrams are on very good terms.

I'll quote myself on this point - something I wrote in response to something similar from BillJ, who has not chosen to address it and apparently forgot my first sentence in his latest retort:

Not that Cumberbatch meant any of it, and not that he and Abrams are anything but friendly, but do you really think the motion picture industry is full of people who don't think the people they work with are dickheads and still sign the contracts?

Mod note: I would have combined the above two posts, but I don't see how to delete this post after moving the text to the previous post.

 

[Kelthaz]

If the rumours are true and Cumberbatch is the baddie in the new Star Wars trilogy, then I think it's safe to say he and Abrams are on very good terms.

I wasn't aware of that rumour. He would make an excellent Sith Lord.

 

[M'Sharak]

Mod note: I would have combined the above two posts, but I don't see how to delete this post after moving the text to the previous post.

If I remember correctly, a post count of 1000+ is required for full deletion of posts (though an edit to "post deleted" should be possible now.) For these, I'll just merge the two.

 

[Dukhat]

The article made the implication that you persist in confusing.

I'm not confusing anything. Your quote was quite clearly twisting BC's words around to suit your own beliefs. And you keep insisting that there are so many people out there that think Abrams is a dick and that's what makes the quote so funny. So where are all these people?

I suspect the truth is that the statement resonates with enough people to be funny whether Cumberbatch thinks Abrams is a dickhead or not.

The quote is funny, but not for the reasons you're ascribing to it.

It doesn't matter what I think.

Now this is true.

 

[Hober Mallow]

Even assuming Abrams is a fucking dick... what does it matter?

 

[Kelthaz]

Yeah, I'm not even sure what this conversation is about any longer.

So about that Khan thing, huh? I think that marketing a summer blockbuster action film without an identifiable villain is a bad idea. It can work if done properly, but in this case I think it left the trailers feeling empty. I think if the marketing for the film had been focused on "James Kirk's greatest enemy returns" rather than "some random terrorist with a generic name does stuff" it would have done better at the box office.

 

[Gaith]

I don't see why you wouldn't shout it from the rooftops that Khan is in your movie. If the bad guy were somebody else from TOS then I could understand wanting to maintain some degree of keeping it seperate. But Khan is one of the franchises most iconic villains (for better or worse), heck he's one of the few villains that the wider public *would* recognize thanks to the "Khaaaaaaaannnnn!!!" soundbite entering popular culture. From a marketing perspective, it really makes absolutely no sense to pretend he isn't in the movie when he actually is.

Well, to be fair (I guess) - and there's a belated reply to JarodRussell here - the script as writen very much encourages the hidden marketing and big reveal. If they'd advertised the "RETURN OF KHAN!!!" but only had our heroes learn his true identity halfway through, and at no point actually learn what made him such a fearsome figure in the first place, general audience and fan reaction would doubtless have been that the return of such a storied villain was a big ol' box o' nothing.

If, however, Khan had been the openly identified villain throughout the movie, it would have been impossible to keep that under wraps. It's only because the name Khan is such a small part of the story that they were able to do so - which in turn explains why it was so meaningless.

 

[suarezguy]

As someone who avoids spoilers but inadvertently (memoryalpha) learned that Khan was in in some way involved in ID, I didn't figure Harrison would be him and was surprised when he was revealed to be but that quickly turned to being underwhelmed.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

Let's all just agree J.J. Abrams is the Anti-Christ and move on.

Okay, then we can also agree that most Star Trek fans are what I've said they were before, and move on.

 

[BillJ]

Let's all just agree J.J. Abrams is the Anti-Christ and move on.

Okay, then we can also agree that most Star Trek fans are what I've said they were before, and move on.

I think you missed that my post was a bit sarcastic.