• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

J.J. Abrams enters The Twilight Zone

Nerys Myk said:
RJDiogenes said:
Nevertheless, it's true and consistent with the re-imagining of the characters as corrupt parodies of the originals (with the exception of McCoy-- and Chekov, I suppose).
Click to expand...
No its not. It's hyperbolic BS. If you think that a woman at a bar picking up drinks for a her friends, who is hit by a guy and uses humor and sarcasm to shut him down is a "bar babe". Then I think you might want to turn in your feminist card. Ditto, if you assume that a woman who has scored in the top of her class and expects a position commensurate with that, challenges the person who gives her a lesser position. Nothing in their exchange implies Uhura was manipulating Spock through sex. That you think so speaks to your opinion of women, which doesn't seem very positive. Get your mind out of that gutter in the 1950s.
Click to expand...

Also, recall that she's assigned to Farragut in the first place because of Spock attempting to avoid an appearance of favoritism. Rather than "manipulating him" it's a case of "Remember I'm not just your girlfriend, idiot, I'm also damned talented and I deserve to be on Enterprise."



ETA: Also, no JJ for Doctor Who! But that's because I want it to stay as British as possible in production, especially the directors and producers; I love his work otherwise.
 
Last edited:
Nerys Myk said:
No its not. It's hyperbolic BS. If you think that a woman at a bar picking up drinks for a her friends, who is hit by a guy and uses humor and sarcasm to shut him down is a "bar babe". Then I think you might want to turn in your feminist card. Ditto, if you assume that a woman who has scored in the top of her class and expects a position commensurate with that, challenges the person who gives her a lesser position. Nothing in their exchange implies Uhura was manipulating Spock through sex. That you think so speaks to your opinion of women, which doesn't seem very positive. Get your mind out of that gutter in the 1950s.
Click to expand...
Heh. No, resorting to political dodges won't change anything.

You called Kirk a "delinquent loser". Not seeing that. Yeah Pike does refer to Kirk as "genius-level repeat offender". Key word is 'genius", not "offender". He also gets through the Academy in three yeasr and found a way to beat the Kobayashi Maru test. Is he all that different than Prime Kirk? The guy who was described a "not a Boy Scout" by his ex. Who also beat the Koyayashi Maru (Prime McCoy called it cheating). He regularly defied orders, pissed high level bureaucrat and gained a reputation as a "cowboy."
Click to expand...
Interesting, because he was deliberately portrayed as a delinquent loser by the writers-- that was their purpose in killing off his father. In the original universe, he was a "positively grim" student. He beat the Kobayashi Maru by finding a way to beat the no-win scenario that they hadn't thought of-- nuKirk simply hacked the program and caused the Klingons to blow up for no reason. He was going to be kicked out of the academy for it, not given a commendation for original thinking.

Scotty's a "loser" because he got a punishment assignment because a piss off an Admiral while trying prove an engineering theory he had?
Click to expand...
Yup, he was stuck in solitary confinement in some useless job.

Spock is a psycho? Was Prime Spock a psycho when he suggested they kill Gary Mitchell? When he rigged a torpedo to kill Chang? When he hijacked the ship on several occasions. When he tried to kill his commanding officer, more than once? When he threatened to kill McCoy?
Click to expand...
Yes, he tried to kill Kirk twice. Premeditated the first time, since he had the option of the brig or confinement to quarters or sick bay, rather than shoot him off alone to crash on a hostile planet.

A bit light, considering that among the victims spread out over several star systems, are Kirk's brother and sister in law. ( and possibly his other nephews).
Click to expand...
People often need a light moment after a traumatic experience. That situation is not even slightly analogous.

And, since you're getting so bent out of shape about the whole thing, I really have no interest in going over it all again and again.
 
RJDiogenes said:
Uhura into a bar babe who manipulates superior officers with sex
Click to expand...

But throughout the new Star Trek films Uhura was exceptional. We had a testimony by Spock of her abilities as a cadet, way before he was burdened by the destruction of Vulcan – and there's no reason to doubt his judgement. We saw her replace the acting communications officer because he was unqualified for the mission. We saw her take on exotic alien languages with ease, at short notice in extremely stressful circumstances. She was seen maintaining composure when other crewmen were losing it, participating in combat, and repeatedly proving she deserves a position on the flagship. That's more credit than TOS episodes have usually given her.

Characterising that as a "bar babe who manipulates superior officers with sex" is painfully unfair.
 
Women have no business flirting. Oh, she didn't in the bar. Then, getting on Enterprise. Oh, she stood on her credentials. She's too cute.
 
Seriously what the heck? Where is the Kirk criticism if we are going to start bashing characters for flirting and having sexual relationships? And that's both Kirks, Nu and Prime.

A bar babe, did you even see the movie?
 
The romance with Spock is dumb but otherwise NuUhura is an OK character. She's just given far too much focus, which is a bit annoying as just about everybody prefers McCoy and Scotty.

I think the issue we have is that Star Trek has never really been a loud, dumb, adrenaline ride. The writing is now an afterthought, when it used to be the driving force of the series. I actually like the stagey feel of the TV series, and feel uncomfortable seeing Star Trek resemble Bayformers.
 
RJDiogenes said:
Interesting, because he was deliberately portrayed as a delinquent loser by the writers-- that was their purpose in killing off his father. In the original universe, he was a "positively grim" student. He beat the Kobayashi Maru by finding a way to beat the no-win scenario that they hadn't thought of-- nuKirk simply hacked the program and caused the Klingons to blow up for no reason. He was going to be kicked out of the academy for it, not given a commendation for original thinking.
Click to expand...

Kirk reprogrammed the test to make it possible to save the ship...

Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan said:
McCOY: Lieutenant, you are looking at the only Starfleet cadet who ever beat the no-win scenario.
SAAVIK: How?
KIRK: I reprogrammed the simulation so it was possible to rescue the ship.
SAAVIK: What?
DAVID: He cheated!
KIRK: I changed the conditions of the test. I got a commendation for original thinking. ...I don't like to lose.
Click to expand...

Prime Kirk hacked the simulation as well... :rolleyes:
 
And McCoy said the board would rule in his favour, allowing him to stay on, most likely a reference to that commendation, only this time the semester was cut short by the Vulcan incident.
 
Exactly. What happened in Trek '09 with the Kobayashi Maru fits beat-for-beat what was described in The Wrath of Khan.
 
"Listen, kiddo, Jim Kirk was many things, but he was never a Boy Scout!" - Carol Marcus
 
I actually liked that bit in 09 Trek. Kirk is even eating an apple in the simulation, mirroring the TWOK scene quoted above.
 
We see little to nothing of Prime Kirk's past from 2233-2263 so there's a hell of a lot of room for speculation, and from the various things we know about him, he was at least very bright and often getting into some form of trouble.
 
I think that STXI's take on the Kobayashi Maru scenario was that Kirk thought that the Klingon ships were ridiculously and unrealistically overpowered. He therefore felt no shame in making light of destroying the contrivances.

Ya gotta admit: in TWOK, the simulated Enterprise folded like a house of cards under the make-believe Klingon fire. That was something about TWOK that always stuck out to me, from first viewing. In real fights, the TOS Enterprise lasted, shall we say, longer.
 
In TWOK, it was said that Kirk reprogrammed the simulation so that it was possible to save the ship and he was given a commendation for original thinking. Given the theme of Kirk always finding a way out (that revelation was punctuated by a sudden reversal of fortune when all seemed hopeless), it would hopefully be assumed that he reprogrammed the simulation with a clever alternative that the programmers hadn't thought of-- he didn't believe in a no-win scenario. In nuTrek, he simply vandalized the simulation. No original thinking, no imagination, no beating the no-win scenario. It's rather disturbing to think that he would be rewarded for doing something so stupid. I'm amazed that anyone thinks this is what happened in the original universe.

YellowSubmarine said:
But throughout the new Star Trek films Uhura was exceptional. We had a testimony by Spock of her abilities as a cadet, way before he was burdened by the destruction of Vulcan – and there's no reason to doubt his judgement. We saw her replace the acting communications officer because he was unqualified for the mission. We saw her take on exotic alien languages with ease, at short notice in extremely stressful circumstances. She was seen maintaining composure when other crewmen were losing it, participating in combat, and repeatedly proving she deserves a position on the flagship. That's more credit than TOS episodes have usually given her.

Characterising that as a "bar babe who manipulates superior officers with sex" is painfully unfair.
Click to expand...
Sure, they all had their talents and triumphs, but it doesn't change that most of them were characterized in negative contrast to the originals.

teacake said:
Seriously what the heck? Where is the Kirk criticism if we are going to start bashing characters for flirting and having sexual relationships? And that's both Kirks, Nu and Prime.

A bar babe, did you even see the movie?
Click to expand...
I assume you're talking to me, even though I never bashed characters for flirting and having sexual relationships (this is me, after all :rommie:), but the answer is yes, I did see the first one.
 
RJDiogenes said:
In TWOK, it was said that Kirk reprogrammed the simulation so that it was possible to save the ship and he was given a commendation for original thinking. Given the theme of Kirk always finding a way out (that revelation was punctuated by a sudden reversal of fortune when all seemed hopeless), it would hopefully be assumed that he reprogrammed the simulation with a clever alternative that the programmers hadn't thought of-- he didn't believe in a no-win scenario. In nuTrek, he simply vandalized the simulation. No original thinking, no imagination, no beating the no-win scenario. It's rather disturbing to think that he would be rewarded for doing something so stupid. I'm amazed that anyone thinks this is what happened in the original universe.
Click to expand...

You realize that by reprogramming the scenario, he would know exactly how to beat it? So all he had to do was wait for a certain event that he programmed into the simulation in order to beat it.

Kirk may act like a douche when beating it in the 2009 film, but Prime Kirk had no more issue saving the ship because he knew exactly how the scenario he programmed would play out.
 
How is reprogramming the simulation not "vandalizing" the computer, hacking the computer, cheating or exactly what NuKirk did? What do you think Kirk did to the computer to win? He rewrote the test to give himself an advantage!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top