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It's been a while...

I hate to say it JES, but that went way over the line of "a few suggestions" and into "insulting".

Okay, fine, so maybe I should have said "several" suggestions, or should I have used the word modifications?

Why does it seem easier to come off as insulting when you're around?:sigh:

On second thought, screw that last comment. I'm sorry if I came off as insulting.

Believe me when I say that want to come off as eager to help, and definitely not as condescending or anything like that in any way. I mostly like the look that Ihlecreations came up with for the Enterprise-G.

Some of my ideas are at least worth considering, right?

I'm hoping that at least a few of my suggestions are utilized, though I'm guessing that is up to Ihlecreations and Terry Shull.
 
I happy to hear that she is open to ideas, though I don't know how to contact her. If I did, I would start on some sketches right away. I'm guessing she would prefer a visual depiction and descriptions detailing the reasoning behind design elements, as opposed to written descriptions like the ones I gave above.

I'm guessing that either you, Ihlecreations (or both) can provide with her contact information, right?
 
Ok first please do not take this wrong but JES while you didn't mean to insult, I will tell you I had to take a while and calm down before I wrote this. Terry contacted and commissioned me to do this design, we went over the particulars and the design took shape. I then asked Sean to help because I felt he would be a great collaborator on this, when the design is done I am sharing the commission with him. It has her approval as is.

When I posted this design it was not so everyone with an idea would get in on the deal. If you were doing a piece for someone, that last thing I would try to do was nose in on it just because I felt the design needed something, it would be your design and for me to jump in because I felt you did something I wouldn't have would be wrong. I am not saying your ideas are bad or wrong, it's just I wasn't looking for suggestions as to the design, I was sharing it with everyone.

I am not trying to sound like an ass, or that I am better than you in anyway. All I am saying is I a being paid to do this and for you to basically usurp me as the designer to the person who commissioned me by offering suggestions is sort of insulting.

God I hope I don't sound like an jerk.
 
Ok first please do not take this wrong but JES while you didn't mean to insult, I will tell you I had to take a while and calm down before I wrote this. Terry contacted and commissioned me to do this design, we went over the particulars and the design took shape. I then asked Sean to help because I felt he would be a great collaborator on this, when the design is done I am sharing the commission with him. It has her approval as is.

When I posted this design it was not so everyone with an idea would get in on the deal. If you were doing a piece for someone, that last thing I would try to do was nose in on it just because I felt the design needed something, it would be your design and for me to jump in because I felt you did something I wouldn't have would be wrong. I am not saying your ideas are bad or wrong, it's just I wasn't looking for suggestions as to the design, I was sharing it with everyone.

I am not trying to sound like an ass, or that I am better than you in anyway. All I am saying is I a being paid to do this and for you to basically usurp me as the designer to the person who commissioned me by offering suggestions is sort of insulting.

God I hope I don't sound like an jerk.

You're not sounding like a jerk.

I'm not an artist, so perhaps this is a weird view. But I've noticed in the art forum, that there are a few people who will ALWAYS tell other people what they need to change in their designs, to alter it in a way that they feel is better. And that's just plain insulting. People make art, mostly for themselves. They make it in a way they feel is right. If you don't like, STFU or GTFO. But don't tell people what they need to do.

Now, that doesn't mean you can't voice your opinion. If you don't like something, say so. You can even say why you don't a design. But saying why you don't like, and almost TELLING someone to change something about a design, are two completely different things. And yes, telling someone to alter a design is insulting in a way.
 
Ok first please do not take this wrong but JES while you didn't mean to insult, I will tell you I had to take a while and calm down before I wrote this. Terry contacted and commissioned me to do this design, we went over the particulars and the design took shape. I then asked Sean to help because I felt he would be a great collaborator on this, when the design is done I am sharing the commission with him. It has her approval as is.

When I posted this design it was not so everyone with an idea would get in on the deal. If you were doing a piece for someone, that last thing I would try to do was nose in on it just because I felt the design needed something, it would be your design and for me to jump in because I felt you did something I wouldn't have would be wrong. I am not saying your ideas are bad or wrong, it's just I wasn't looking for suggestions as to the design, I was sharing it with everyone.

I am not trying to sound like an ass, or that I am better than you in anyway. All I am saying is I a being paid to do this and for you to basically usurp me as the designer to the person who commissioned me by offering suggestions is sort of insulting.

God I hope I don't sound like an jerk.

Oh no, not at all. I understand, and I didn't mean to upset you, and now I feel kind of bad that I did. I hope I don't sound like a jerk either.

I was under the impression that the design was probably only in the basic finalized stage, due to certain missing details, such as weapons and RCS thrusters, or in other words were finalized roughs, while the details were still not quite nailed down yet.

I made my suggestions with the hope that you might approach them with an open mind, and was thinking along the lines that I would leave you free to integrate any of my ideas that you liked, and make changes based on the ones you liked, make only small tweaks or refinements, or completely reject all of them because you didn't like them, because you thought that they strayed too far from your design style/too far into mine, or didn't think they were appropriate for a ship of the Enterprise's intended roles (such as giving her too aggressive a look). Same thing would go for if you had given me permission to draft some sketches for depicting my ideas, even any that I felt strongly about (the only example in this case would be the an FTL drive for the primary hull).

I was also thinking more along the lines that I might come up with ideas that wouldn't have occurred to either you or Sean. That is also why, for future reference, I wouldn't find it wrong if you suggested any changes or tweaks to any of my designs. In fact, I would welcome any advice from you, and I'm always open to advice from anyone (as long as they at least try to make an effort to do so with courtesy). I might or might not end up deciding to make any refinements to them, or I might put up a poll to let other members decide if the suggestions would be improvements or not. I also wouldn't necessarily be offended if you pointed out any design elements that you wouldn't have used yourself, because to me, that is more like stating "that is a rather unique or unusual design element", or another way of either pointing out an example of one of my typical design style, or sharing your own design style, but unless otherwise stated, I wouldn't assume that you meant to say that it is a bad design element, merely different.

And just so you know, I was not thinking about, nor did I want any money when I offered to help. I only did so because I thought that it might be fun if I were allowed to collaborate too.

I also hope that I'm not coming off like I think I'm better than you either, because I don't. I will admit that I did sort of intend to have my suggestions also come off as strong opinions, and I can be a very opinionated person. I will also admit that I have the opinion that my ideas would probably be beneficial, but I also want to acknowledge that I know that they are only opinions, and that said, if you do not want to use any of my ideas, let alone let me collaborate, then I accept, understand, and respect your decision. Albeit not necessarily in a "I agree with you" sort of way, but more of a but "ah well, it is what it is" sort of way.

I hope that there are no hard feelings, that you know that I did not mean any harm, and that we can (proverbially, since we can't literally) shake hands.
 
I don't think suggestions to modify a design are arrogant in and of themselves, though they certainly can be delivered in an arrogant manner... but while I value input on a project I don't feel any obligation to take said advice. On the WIP of my Giger Doomsday Machine project I got suggestions to go in different directions, and where appropriate I tried them out and went with the one I liked best in the end, which was a combination of their suggestions and my ideas... to me the potential input of other skilled artists and veteran observers is one of the big reasons why I've been here for so many years, and it's helped me immensely was a artist.

...that and all the incredibly frakkin' gorgeous art you guys make!
 
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