Italy: Talk Isn't Cheap

[tharpdevenport]

At least not for one woman who once upon a time discussed open marriage with her soon-to-be hubby.

An Italian court has denied her alimony because of it.

(UK Gardian LINK)


I think this is fucked up. Talk is one thing in such circumstances, but not having done it (which they could find no proof of) should have meant the judge laughing at these lawyers.


By this crazy set of rules, couldn't one -- theorhetically -- be denied certain judgements in a divorce or fiedelity hearing if one, say for example the husband, was caught with porn?


And isn't policing thought a dangerous precedent to begin with?


Your thoughts.

 

[Roger Wilco]

I think alimony in general is bullshit. Get a fucking job, woman.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

As I understand it, the divorce (or annulment, actually) was from an Ecclesiastical court. Of course, the secular court backed up the ruling, but that doesn't necessarily mean they would have ruled the same way in an entirely secular divorce.

 

[Tora Ziyal]

I think alimony in general is bullshit. Get a fucking job, woman.

Depends on the circumstances. It's not bullshit if a couple got married years ago w/ the expectation that the woman would be a homemaker, and she's suddenly on her own w/ no work experience and little education.

 

[T'Girl]

I think alimony in general is bullshit. Get a fucking job, woman.

This, community property and child support are fine, but once the marriage is over, it's over.

Get a job.

 

[Miss Chicken]

I think alimony in general is bullshit. Get a fucking job, woman.

Depends on the circumstances. It's not bullshit if a couple got married years ago w/ the expectation that the woman would be a homemaker, and she's suddenly on her own w/ no work experience and little education.

In this case maybe, just maybe, the ex-husband might be obliged to pay alimony while the woman gets an education but no more. Of course he should pay child support.

Edited to add - also if a spouse in incapable of supporting themselves (because of illness or disability) than some alimony should be paid. A friend of mine was abandoned by her husband after she got seriously ill. They divided the property and he did have to pay child support to her but she ended up being in a much poorer financial situation than him because she couldn't work. He also would stop paying children support when his son stayed with him for a week or two during school holidays despite the fact that the mother still had to pay rent etc during that period.

When my marriage broke up I didn't get alimony (granting of alimony is very rare in Australia). I didn't even get child support because my marriage ended before the current child support laws were introduced in Australia. I did get more than my fair share of the debts.

 

[Tora Ziyal]

I think alimony in general is bullshit. Get a fucking job, woman.

Depends on the circumstances. It's not bullshit if a couple got married years ago w/ the expectation that the woman would be a homemaker, and she's suddenly on her own w/ no work experience and little education.

In this case maybe, just maybe, the ex-husband might be obliged to pay alimony while the woman gets an education but no more. Of course he should pay child support.

Edited to add - also if a spouse in incapable of supporting themselves (because of illness or disability) than some alimony should be paid.

The age of the couple is relevant, too. Our former homemaker has much better prospects for making it on her own if she's, say, 30 or 40 years old than if she's 60.

BTW, I didn't get alimony, either. I neither expected nor wanted it; the divorce was my choice, not his.

 

[Miss Chicken]

Yes, I should of said

if a spouse in incapable of supporting themselves (because of illness, age or disability) than some alimony should be paid.

 

[Mooch]

Yes, I should of said

if a spouse in incapable of supporting themselves (because of illness, age or disability) than some alimony should be paid.

I don't see why. They wouldn't be any worse off than if they hadn't gotten married in the first place. They'd still be entitled to half the marital assets.

 

[Miss Chicken]

If a spouse gives up their chance of career advancement to look after children and therefore have an income much lower than they would have if they hadn't done that then I do think they are entitled to extra from the higher earning spouse.

I also think they are entitled to extra if they are deserted because of illness.

The friend I mentioned above was originally earned as much as her husband. When they decided to have children it was agreed that she would be a stay-at-home mother until the children were of school age. At that point she returned to part time work but in another lower paid occupation. Her husband wanted one of them to be home during school holidays so she worked in a school library. As soon as she got ill he deserted her. I think she deserved some compensation for the fact that she gave up her career to care for their children.

 

[Miss Chicken]

I though I would post how the law stands in Australia. Alimony (spousal maintenance) is often award here

A spouse does not automatically get maintenance payments from the other spouse. A separated woman or man who is not caring for children and who is able to work will probably not be awarded maintenance. To obtain maintenance a spouse will generally have to show that he or she cannot support him or herself properly because of the following criteria :

• caring for children, or
• an inability to obtain work due to old age, sickness, or some other reason.

and

In addition, the person would have to show that his or her spouse was reasonably able to pay the maintenance [Family Law Act 1975 s 72]. In deciding whether to make a maintenance order the court is required to take into account the following factors as set in section 75(2):

• the spouses' income and financial resources and their ability to obtain work
• their financial needs and obligations
• their eligibility for social security payments
• their age and health
• whether either spouse is caring for a child under eighteen years
• after separation, a standard of living that is reasonable in all the circumstances
• the extent to which the spouse seeking maintenance has made a contribution to the resources or earning capacity of the other spouse
• the length of the marriage and the extent to which it has affected earning capacity
• the need to protect a parent who wishes to continue the role of parent
• the financial circumstances of cohabitation if the spouse seeking maintenance is living with someone else
• the terms of any property settlement
• whether child support payments have been made or will have to be made in the future
• any other relevant factor.

Source