Spoilers It Takes You Away grade and discussion thread

[Pindar]

Once again a good episode with no real villain. High concept stuff that kinda feels like it belongs in an episode of Sapphire and Steel. I'm glad to have this range of different storytelling styles across the series.

There is quite a lot to unpack in this episode from dealing with grief and past emotional damage so you can see what you have and live your life, understanding that your experience isn't the only point of view and even stuff about toxic and damaging relationships and how relationships with others change us. All in this weird little 50 minutes.

Well put Bob, I wish they would bring back Saphire and Steel I loved that show.

An 8 for me, a pretty strong finish to Jodie's first year. The cast especially Jodie and Bradley have been great quite a few stories have been average though which is a shame.

As for numbers, since the move to Sunday I can't watch it until at least Mondays now because I am not free. Am I right in thinking the worst numbers for this year are better than last years best?

 

[Starkers]

Well put Bob, I wish they would bring back Saphire and Steel I loved that show.

An 8 for me, a pretty strong finish to Jodie's first year. The cast especially Jodie and Bradley have been great quite a few stories have been average though which is a shame.

As for numbers, since the move to Sunday I can't watch it until at least Mondays now because I am not free. Am I right in thinking the worst numbers for this year are better than last years best?

They certainly are (and probably the season before) but the continued decline is unusual and is unparalleled in modern Who because they usually stabilise around episode 5 or 6. I know only fans pay attention to this but the AI figures this year are probably the worst the show's had since it's return. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me as even eps like Kablam scored low, but again it is a noticeable difference from the norm (although they've been lowering since Matt left anyway so I've know idea if it's even calculated differently.

Edited to add. The latest consolidated figures are for The Witchfinder and are 7.21 million. To put that into context the last episode of Who to get more viewers than that (outside of Christmas specials) was Death in Heaven in 2014!

 

[Bob The Skutter]

They certainly are (and probably the season before) but the continued decline is unusual and is unparalleled in modern Who because they usually stabilise around episode 5 or 6. I know only fans pay attention to this but the AI figures this year are probably the worst the show's had since it's return. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me as even eps like Kablam scored low, but again it is a noticeable difference from the norm (although they've been lowering since Matt left anyway so I've know idea if it's even calculated differently.

Edited to add. The latest consolidated figures are for The Witchfinder and are 7.21 million. To put that into context the last episode of Who to get more viewers than that (outside of Christmas specials) was Death in Heaven in 2014!

There may be a contingent of people who are consistently scoring it low on the AI because they're of the "Lefty PC SJW Nonsense" crowd and even if others rate it higher it drags the average down?

 

[Starkers]

There may be a contingent of people who are consistently scoring it low on the AI because they're of the "Lefty PC SJW Nonsense" crowd and even if others rate it higher it drags the average down?

Yeah but the joint highest AI this year was Rosa. Like I say the AI like the ratings have been slipping for years anyway and I do think there is probably just an element of the show not being new and vibrant and exciting anymore in the way it was under David and Matt and if that's the case there isn't anything the BBC can do except consider (shudder) the show taking a break for a few years, but I doubt they'll do that because it is still a really popular show and I can't imagine the BBC are unhappy with the best ratings since season 6/7.

I don't have an agenda, I'm just trying to look at the evidence dispassionately. I think at the end of this year Chibnall and the BBC will sit down (hopefully) and figure out what worked well and what didn't, but I'll be amazed if there aren't changes in S12 to do more of the former and less of the latter (I'll be amazed if we don't get Daleks and we don't get an arc)

 

[Guy Gardener]

Arcs are justification for shitty episodes at the beginning of the season.

I wonder if the Doctor has noticed that there is no string connecting her adventures this year?

As if all her big bads are on holiday, somewhere together and they did not invite her.

How about the Doctor goes to the TV Show Benidorm for the new Years Special?

The special episode can be %90 Karaoke.

 

[Starkers]

Arcs are justification for shitty episodes at the beginning of the season.

I wonder if the Doctor has noticed that there is no string connecting her adventures this year?

As if all her big bads are on holiday, somewhere together and they did not invite her.

How about the Doctor goes to the TV Show Benidorm for the new Years Special?

The special episode can be %90 Karaoke.

I bet she always does Two Hearts by Phil Collins.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Arcs are justification for shitty episodes at the beginning of the season.

I wonder if the Doctor has noticed that there is no string connecting her adventures this year?

As if all her big bads are on holiday, somewhere together and they did not invite her.

How about the Doctor goes to the TV Show Benidorm for the new Years Special?

The special episode can be %90 Karaoke.

Or we are just witnessing more of her normal adventures.
I don’t think we are supposed to believe that Daleks and Cybermen are showing up in her life every other week. From her perspective they are probably a one in a couple hundred years event on average.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The theory is that the TARDIS is looking for Trouble.

Also that the TARDIS matches the threatlevel of each adventure with the capability of each Doctor... Or at least that's the assumption I made after in a comic we saw that the TARDIS was making bedrooms tailored to companions that none of them had met yet.

 

[BritishSeaPower]

Not for nothing, but the low rating for this week was still 25% of available viewers! That’s nothing to sneeze at.

I do think the move to Sunday has been some harm to the show, too. The steady decline isn’t great. But it seems like it’s normalizing back to who was watching the show last year.

 

[Starkers]

I genuinely thought Sunday night would be good for the show, less chance of people going out and a much more consistent timeslot between Countyfile and Strictly, I expected a captive audience, and in some respects given we're still talking a lot of people it is.

 

[DarthPipes]

The father came up with a whole deliberate plan to frighten his daughter and keep her where she was. That shows deliberate thought.

 

[Tallguy]

I can only speak to what I'm witnessing first hand: This is the first Doctor that my whole family sits down to watch every week.

And IMHO this last week was the best episode of the show this season. (Rosa was close.)

 

[Mr Awe]

The father came up with a whole deliberate plan to frighten his daughter and keep her where she was. That shows deliberate thought.

Deliberate thought but not believable for a father who loves his daughter. He'd want to bring her over to the other side and live as a family again as soon as possible. Given how his character was portrayed, his actions are not believable. He was a family man who missed having the entire family: wife and daughter. Given the opportunity that arose, he'd recreate that ASAP! Not keep the daughter isolated on the other side.

 

[Starkers]

Deliberate thought but not believable for a father who loves his daughter. He'd want to bring her over to the other side and live as a family again as soon as possible. Given how his character was portrayed, his actions are not believable. He was a family man who missed having the entire family: wife and daughter. Given the opportunity that arose, he'd recreate that ASAP! Not keep the daughter isolated on the other side.

It's possible that on some level he knew it was false and knew that brining Hanne into the equation would ruin everything, or maybe he was just selfish and wanted his wife all to himself, if only for a while. He was grief-stricken and maybe he wanted a break from his daughter as well

 

[Mr Awe]

It's possible that on some level he knew it was false and knew that brining Hanne into the equation would ruin everything, or maybe he was just selfish and wanted his wife all to himself, if only for a while. He was grief-stricken and maybe he wanted a break from his daughter as well

I suppose you could make that argument but it doesn't ring true for me. Once she was there, he was thrilled to see her and desperate for her to accept the situation. He wanted her there! I just found it unbelievable. He wanted his family back, and that appeared to be an opportunity.

I also didn't buy that such a tiny speaker would've made such a loud impressive monster sound. You put that outside and the vastness of the open space would swallow up the sound from such a tiny speaker.

 

[Redfern]

I also didn't buy that such a tiny speaker would've made such a loud impressive monster sound. You put that outside and the vastness of the open space would swallow up the sound from such a tiny speaker.

Maybe they were Bose brand speakers?

(Sorry, I couldn't resist. )

 

[SolarisOne]

But, the thing that I ADORED that almost makes up for the other stuff: the frog. I FUCKING LOVED THE FROG. It was so weird, so absurd, so surreal. It was funny. It was very Monty Python by way of Neil Gaiman. I would love it if Doctor Who leaned more into THAT weirdness--which could help set it apart from a lot of other things out there. This episode sort of had a Black Mirror feel to it...

More frog, please.

Indeed. That was the only part of the episode that caught my interest.

 

[JRoss]

Would have been perfect if it hadn't been for that stupid frog. If you're not going to do the animation right, don't do it at all.

Otherwise, brilliant. The actress who plays Grace has a wnderful voice. Very emotional. Compelling characters, good parts for everyone except Yaz (again). I loked the Solitract idea a lot. Someone who wants to love us but can't be with us. Peril, scary bits, loss, all that.

Stupid frog.

ETA: Need GIFs of that stupid frog.

 

[Tallguy]

The frog looked practical. Everyone always wants practical effects, right? Far superior to CG in every instance, right?

 

[matthunter]

Not for nothing, but the low rating for this week was still 25% of available viewers! That’s nothing to sneeze at.

This is why I was asking for the audience share in one of the other episode threads - apparent drops may just be a lower overall audience that night. Usually not, but there are some occasions when the audience is just less in general (often holidays or sunny days).