^^
Doh!
Doh!
It looks like the Terminator: Salvation ending rumors where true!
- Thread starter Brandonv
- Start date
There are two reasons the rumoured original ending doesn't appeal to me. One is that it just seems like an excuse for lots of action scenes where Connor goes toe to toe with other Terminators, Transformers style. The other is that it basically feels like a huge betrayal of the Resistance, especially coming off the end of the arc that TSCC has just been doing.
For me, it's several reasons:
1. It conflicts a bit with continuity and logic. Dogs were used to spot terminators, so wouldn't anybody be the least bit suspicious that dogs were constantly barking at robo-John? How could it be kept a secret?
2. The science of it is terrible. How exactly would they get John's skin on Marcus' endoskeleton and properly functioning in every way? What would keep the skin from dying? Wouldn't there be an insane amount of scars? Wouldn't he smell really bad? There is a huge list of reasons why it isn't scientifically feasible.
3. A fundamental theme of Terminator is man vs. machine. Granted the resistance might use machines, and there might be humans that help Skynet, but the general idea of man vs. machine loses a lot of steam when it's just a cyborg replacement fighting. People like Kyle showing an immense loyalty to John and a great hatred of the machines start to become too conflicted, and those stories become harder to believe.
4. John isn't even really supposed to be that legendary yet in this movie. He's smart, but he doesn't have the insane amount of respect that he will in the next decade. So what good is replacing him if he's not iconic yet? Why would Marcus know how to lead? Is the inference that John Connor is just the patsy and that Marcus is the real brains? That sucks and it practically invalidates the other movies.
5. What point is there to sending a terminator back to kill Sarah? Maybe the timeline is changed, I don't know, but if Skynet knows one of its terminators killed John, then why should it bother trying to kill him before he was born? To kill the legend? He isn't even the full leader yet, as I mentioned above, so shouldn't they really want to kill Marcus? They should know that someone replaces John and that this person even looks like John. If the skin exchange were even slightly logical, might they not assume that it's Marcus who leads the resistance to victory?
6. It feels like it's done for the sake of being a twist than for actually having a point. Like it was done because it was kewl or edgy. Sensationalism like that sucks.
If anything, it's not "bold" at all, and is quite a good deal more "brainless."
The final confrontation happened in Serena's laboratory (where we see Marcus throw the stool through the window in the trailer). Connor's brain was going to be transplanted into Marcus' body. His skin was going to be recreated through laser scan. Sort of like his skin was copied. Think RoboCop.
The question is, based on the spoiler, was he man or machine? It was pretty subjective.
John Connor isn't important in the hierarchy of the United States Military, but he is the voice of the human Resistance. This is explained in the prequel novel. People trust him more than the military leadeship. Again, Marcus was not Connor. Connor was in Marcus' endoskeleton.
Connor's importance is he is the faceman of the Resistance. People know who he is and his history. General Ashdown, however, doesn't believe it.
I think I'm going to forego spoiler tags since this thread is about the ending anyways. So possible spoilers below for those who care...
Why would Serena do this when she was supposedly the one that killed him? And why Marcus when he was shown to have a mind of his own? If they have all the technology, why not make a new endo and keep Marcus? Serena has always been listed as a villain, so why would she help the resistance?
Man's mind and machine's body, but too much blurring of the sides in the war. It's too many shades of gray. It's like the part about hybrids controlling Skynet, which is pretty lame.
Is the prequel novel out? Anyway, even where he's at he hasn't achieved a legendary status. He hasn't turned humanity from the brink or won the war. At this point he is probably replaceable, especially if Kate is in the fold.
I doubt anybody knows that Connor had run-ins with the machines before Judgment Day, and he'd probably be dumb to try and explain that to most people. Again, Kate could probably take his place, or any others that "knew who he is and his history."
It's all still too much explanation required for just a contrived ending (I noticed no rebuttal of point #1, which is probably the first point I'd have). It's better to not fuck with the mythology too much and stick with Occam's Razor. Of course, I think there will be a fair share of things being mucked up.
Why would Serena do this when she was supposedly the one that killed him? And why Marcus when he was shown to have a mind of his own? If they have all the technology, why not make a new endo and keep Marcus? Serena has always been listed as a villain, so why would she help the resistance?
Man's mind and machine's body, but too much blurring of the sides in the war. It's too many shades of gray. It's like the part about hybrids controlling Skynet, which is pretty lame.
Is the prequel novel out? Anyway, even where he's at he hasn't achieved a legendary status. He hasn't turned humanity from the brink or won the war. At this point he is probably replaceable, especially if Kate is in the fold.
I doubt anybody knows that Connor had run-ins with the machines before Judgment Day, and he'd probably be dumb to try and explain that to most people. Again, Kate could probably take his place, or any others that "knew who he is and his history."
It's all still too much explanation required for just a contrived ending (I noticed no rebuttal of point #1, which is probably the first point I'd have). It's better to not fuck with the mythology too much and stick with Occam's Razor. Of course, I think there will be a fair share of things being mucked up.
I think its a cool idea, but maybe for another movie about man vs machines/robots etc...not for Terminator.
There were no additional bodies available to them. Serena had escaped.
Yes Terminator Salvation: From the Ashes and Terminator: Sand in the Gears are both available. Connor is already very important to the Resistance and commands his own unit according to the tie ins.
John Connor's history is known to many in the Resistance - that he has been facing Skynet since he was a child.
Those aspects are still planned in the film and will be revealed there. But, remember, this isn't the war that John Connor was prepared for.
nx1701g.. the go-to guy for all things Terminator.. tell me friend (spoilerize it) - who is Serena (Helena Bonham Carter) as a character in this continuity?
Serena Kogen's exact specifics are unknown. Everything about her is speculative at this point. One of the leading rumors, for a time, was that she was Serena Burns but this is unlikely.
Wasn't it revealed from an earlier script that she was a
But that still doesn't explain all the other questions. Why try to kill John?
Actually, if I remember right, she was trying to kill Kate and John got in the way, so maybe she didn't want John dead, but killing his wife seems pretty anti-resistance. Just the fact that we know she's a bad guy makes her preservation of John seem silly.
That seems a strange thing for him to tell any of them, for many reasons.
Which aspects?
I think John's line about it not being the future his mother warned him about hints at a couple different possibilities:
1. Sarah couldn't have known everything, and while John remains uncertain, his uncertainty actually motivates him to carry out his destiny. The implication is that there is one set future, regardless of T2's implication, and T3's direct stance on it.
2. Someone has changed the future via time travel somehow. Either in one of the previous movies or something unseen in this movie. But eventually it will lead towards it being restored in some way.
Not that this is relevant, just wanted to discuss.
hybrid, and the one who controlled Skynet?
But that still doesn't explain all the other questions. Why try to kill John?
Actually, if I remember right, she was trying to kill Kate and John got in the way, so maybe she didn't want John dead, but killing his wife seems pretty anti-resistance. Just the fact that we know she's a bad guy makes her preservation of John seem silly.
That seems a strange thing for him to tell any of them, for many reasons.
Which aspects?
I think John's line about it not being the future his mother warned him about hints at a couple different possibilities:
1. Sarah couldn't have known everything, and while John remains uncertain, his uncertainty actually motivates him to carry out his destiny. The implication is that there is one set future, regardless of T2's implication, and T3's direct stance on it.
2. Someone has changed the future via time travel somehow. Either in one of the previous movies or something unseen in this movie. But eventually it will lead towards it being restored in some way.
Not that this is relevant, just wanted to discuss.
Weeellll...after reading all of this it looks like I won't be seeing this movie (thanks, again Hollyweird) I'll just save my money, thanks again hollyweird for ruining a once ''respetcable'' franchise!
Yes, but unconfirmed if its still in the films.
John is the voice of the Resistance, he is their faceman. They know his history. Killing him would mean a major Skynet victory.
It's mentioned in the tie in novel. Not that I don't agree with you on it.
Capabilities of the machines including the new models.
The Terminator took place in 2029, Salvation in 2018. Time travel changed things. The T-800 - or T-RIP - was created in 2018 in this timeline.
But then why replace him just to lead the resistance to victory? It doesn't make any sense.
I know, but that doesn't prevent them from making some huge change or setback somehow. The ending has often been described as elliptical. Does that possibly mean that things might be restored?
The Resistance was replacing John with the terminator body. They were going to use the equipment in Serena's lab to transplant John's brain into Marcus' endoskeleton.
There are many ways to interpret it. Well find out in a little over a month.
