Is VI underrated?
- Thread starter Amasov
- Start date
On the contrary, I think STVI is overrated. Why are the characters treated so badly? Kirk's suddenly a racist, McCoy is incompetent (no idea about Klingon anatomy?), Uhura can't speak Klingon (the communications officer doesn't know the language of the Federation's main rival?) and Spock mind rapes a screaming Valaris on the bridge while everyone just sits and watches.
And the less said about that Shakespeare-obsessed Chang, the better.
It could have been so much better with some rewrites.
And the less said about that Shakespeare-obsessed Chang, the better.
It could have been so much better with some rewrites.
I'd place it as my second favorite. From what I've seen(that movie list favorite thread comes to mind), most people will put UC in their top three.
Kirk a racist? Well losing a son doesn't help the sunshine and love feelings. He overcame it as a true hero should. Human anatomy alone is highly complicated, I see no problem with McCoy not knowing Klingon anatomy when the Federation has dozens of member species he's more likely to be treating first. He knew enough to briefly revive him regardless. I thought the Uhura scene was weaker because they yanked out books rather than used a computer to figure out what to say but that was more a early 90's thing than anything. As for Spock mind raping Valeris? I got to give a pass on that one. If he hadn't done that they still wouldn't know who the assassins and conspirators would be. So saving the life of the President and Chancellor rates above a few moments of discomfort for a non-repentant murderer and traitor.
I thought it was a good movie and a grand conclusion to the TOS story arc.
Kirk a racist? Well losing a son doesn't help the sunshine and love feelings. He overcame it as a true hero should. Human anatomy alone is highly complicated, I see no problem with McCoy not knowing Klingon anatomy when the Federation has dozens of member species he's more likely to be treating first. He knew enough to briefly revive him regardless. I thought the Uhura scene was weaker because they yanked out books rather than used a computer to figure out what to say but that was more a early 90's thing than anything. As for Spock mind raping Valeris? I got to give a pass on that one. If he hadn't done that they still wouldn't know who the assassins and conspirators would be. So saving the life of the President and Chancellor rates above a few moments of discomfort for a non-repentant murderer and traitor.
I thought it was a good movie and a grand conclusion to the TOS story arc.
I don't know? Kirk? Could being in the state of Cold War with an enemy and knowing that a member of said enemy murdered your son in cold blood have anything to do with it? Why does McCoy need to know the anatomy of the Klingons? We were still at a point where we didn't even know if there was one race that was considered Klingon or several. And Uhura was never shown as a linguist. That is a faulty assumption, she was always shown to be more of an engineer.
It seems that the reason some people don't like the movie is because the characters don't fit their personal assumptions about them. Just like the people that screamed bloody murder about T'Pol because Spock was supposedly the first Vulcan in Starfleet.
It was on telly yesterday and both my dad and me said the very same thing. Brilliant wait to end it with the TOS gang, and should have just left it there, rather than what came after it.The Undiscovered Country is one of my favorite Trek films. A fitting send-off for the TOS gang.
Its a great film, very enjoyable and a good watch. Great narrative, and I love the amount Shakespeare's work appears in it. Christopher Plummer was excellent throughout.
TUC is my favorite of the TOS films, with TWOK a close 2nd.
As for character flaws, the crew was due to stand down but were thrust into a diplomatic nightmare. They had been the best of the best for ~30 years and were ready to retire.
Just wait until you're that age. You'll be a little grumpy too.
As for character flaws, the crew was due to stand down but were thrust into a diplomatic nightmare. They had been the best of the best for ~30 years and were ready to retire.
Just wait until you're that age. You'll be a little grumpy too.
TUC is my second fave after TWoK. It's underrated if anything.
I look no further than the posts thusfar in this thread and I'm quite comfortable saying that TUC is underrated.
If even one person is saying that STV was the superior effort, then STVI is underrated.
Pretty much. As long as I can remember TUC has been next to only TWOK as far as universally-beloved TOS films go.
But on the other hand, Amasov may have a point in that the film outside of Trekdom probably doesn't have the resonance that TWOK, TVH, FC and XI. have enjoyed.
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TUC was my second-best Trek experience in the theater (after TWoK). A great score (by Cliff Eidelman) with a great beginning - how refreshing to start with something in unison, and have it grow from there - very uncommon in a movie. Another positive was the lack of a shout-out to any of the previous Trek title music, which would have been quite out of place.
I could do without the stupid digital clock and elements of Valeris' haircut (evidently chosen by Kim C.). The rest, I quite enjoyed.
Anyone complaining about the Uhura/books scene would, I suppose, also complain about the Macintosh scene in TVH. Scotty doesn't know what a mouse is (even though a minute later he's an incredibly fast touch-typist)? To me this isn't much different from Uhura relying on books (rather than using a computer translation resource that presumably she'd know how to use if she herself wasn't fluent) - both scenes are in the service of humor, which TUC surely needed. To state the bleedin' obvious: With better translation we'd have no "We is condemning food," "things and supplies," etc.; I loved that stuff and so did the theatrical audience.
I could do without the stupid digital clock and elements of Valeris' haircut (evidently chosen by Kim C.). The rest, I quite enjoyed.
Anyone complaining about the Uhura/books scene would, I suppose, also complain about the Macintosh scene in TVH. Scotty doesn't know what a mouse is (even though a minute later he's an incredibly fast touch-typist)? To me this isn't much different from Uhura relying on books (rather than using a computer translation resource that presumably she'd know how to use if she herself wasn't fluent) - both scenes are in the service of humor, which TUC surely needed. To state the bleedin' obvious: With better translation we'd have no "We is condemning food," "things and supplies," etc.; I loved that stuff and so did the theatrical audience.
I don't think it's underrated. It was well-received went it came out and is still highly regarded. When and how was it underrated?
I will say this (and I share this opinion) after the years have passed, perhaps the flaws and problems are more noticable.
TUC was a hit with fans, maybe even moreso coming off of TFF. It was a fine farewell to TOS. Maybe we were too willing to overlook the problems at the time, too willing to let the flaws go unmentioned.
But decades later, as much as I like TUC, yeah... there are things that bother me now that really didn't at the time.
I will say this (and I share this opinion) after the years have passed, perhaps the flaws and problems are more noticable.
TUC was a hit with fans, maybe even moreso coming off of TFF. It was a fine farewell to TOS. Maybe we were too willing to overlook the problems at the time, too willing to let the flaws go unmentioned.
But decades later, as much as I like TUC, yeah... there are things that bother me now that really didn't at the time.
I would not say under rated at all. Its my second favorite TOS movie behind STII.
I totally disagree with statements that Kirk was racist in STVI. The Klingon's killed his son, said there would be no peace till he was dead. They were his mortal enemy who had attempted to kill him on numerous occasions. So the fact that he does not like them is not a racist statement.
Some of the others did look bad. McCoy did look a little stupid as a doctor but not a lot and he had been drinking. Ohura not being able to speak Klingon was odd. I know its an odd statement but Spock is justified in his actions, he does hurt Valeris a little but to stop a interstellar war that might kill millions. I mean the needs of the many...?
I totally disagree with statements that Kirk was racist in STVI. The Klingon's killed his son, said there would be no peace till he was dead. They were his mortal enemy who had attempted to kill him on numerous occasions. So the fact that he does not like them is not a racist statement.
Some of the others did look bad. McCoy did look a little stupid as a doctor but not a lot and he had been drinking. Ohura not being able to speak Klingon was odd. I know its an odd statement but Spock is justified in his actions, he does hurt Valeris a little but to stop a interstellar war that might kill millions. I mean the needs of the many...?
The Uhura book scene and not being able to speak Klingon fluently was Stephen Meyer's idea. Nichelle Nichols brought up it didn't make sense for the Klingons to be the Feds number 1 enemy and she the communications officer not be able communicate with them. Meyers said the scene was funnier the way he shot it so he left it in there.
I don't mind the Spock forced mind meld scene since he's doing it on another Vulcan who is most likely trained in resisting mental attacks. Although Meyers had said recently he regrets shooting it the way he did. With water boarding and torture used by the US government on it's prisoners in recent years
I don't mind the Spock forced mind meld scene since he's doing it on another Vulcan who is most likely trained in resisting mental attacks. Although Meyers had said recently he regrets shooting it the way he did. With water boarding and torture used by the US government on it's prisoners in recent years
