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Is there a problem with Seven for young girls & women today?

Jefferies

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Over the last 18 months my wife and I have started watching various episodes of Star Trek with my niece who is now 9 and a half years old. We babysit her once or twice a month and it's turned into a bit of a tradition of watching an episode before she gets ready for bed.

Her favourite series is TOS and we have watched over a dozen episodes all of which she has loved. We have also watched several episodes of TNG and DS9 and started watching Voyager a few months ago. Generally what we do is that we watch episodes in relative sequence based on where my wife and I are in our own schedule with each series. We skip "scarier" ones that have things like monsters or too much threat and conflict in them as my niece is still a bit on the squeamish side for a kid her age. This has worked great so far and she has really taken to the shows and started calling herself "a bit of a Trekkie". She has even started asking to watch episodes back home and has a few merchandise toys that she treasures.

So far so good.

Enter Seven of Nine.

We watched our first episode of Voyager last night featuring Seven of Nine. We picked an episode that I have always been rather fond of called the Omega Directive.

Now something that I have been concerned about since getting back into season 4 has been Seven of Nine's costume. The last time I watched Voyager is just under 10 years ago which was my second re-watch at the time after Voyager's original broadcast. I was in my early 20s back then and it never really bothered me that Seven was given such a blatantly sexualised outfit. Sure, I would have preferred something a bit more measured but, generally, I just saw right past it (I know, hard to believe...).

Anyhow, re-watching her come onto the show this time I have been quite uncomfortable with how jarring her attire actually is. It really lacks dignity and respect for the actress and character. In fact from what I have read they used additional undergarments like a corset to further enhance her sexually evocative physique which were so uncomfortable for Jeri Ryan to wear that she would pass out on set. This treatment of Seven of Nine also seems to have lead to a degree of alienation with the rest of the cast in particular Kate Mulgrew.

I feel this aspect of the show has aged absolutely terribly. I have wondered if that is just me, or the fact we live in the #Metoo era or that tastes just change. Interestingly, my wife, although a staunch feminist, seemed not to mind it that much and quickly saw Seven of Nine's personal strengths as a female character. However this doesn't mean she wouldn't prefer her wearing something more respectful.

My niece, on the other hand, really struggled. In fact I would say it disturbed her. From the moment Seven appears, (we had already explained the background of the character), she completely fixated on her clothing. Asking question after question about why she was wearing something that made her look naked (her words).

Her costume of course stands in extreme contrast to the rest of the cast. Even the non-Starfleet characters. Essentially what I think unnerved her was that in the supposedly professional work environment of Starfleet, this one young woman is singled out to wear the opposite of professional clothing for no practical reason. In fact my niece gave at least half a dozen arguments of why it would be unpractical to wear what Seven was wearing. In addition, the costume and camera angles also make her body look out of proportion. Especially her chest is enormous in some scenes. This "distortion" was picked up on by my niece and she clearly found it confusing. It is also interesting that she has never batted as much as an eye-lid at some of the skimpy clothing actresses wore on TOS. Which means this isn't just down to childish prudishness.

I think that the style of filming and the costume of Seven which was indeed designed to be "skin-like" and therefore evoke nudity feels like a violation of her dignity. For example my niece pointed out how Seven was quite stiff and awkward in her personality and she seemed to think that this was linked to her looking "naked" and how embarrassing that must be. I tried to reassure her that her character would be free to choose any clothing she wanted in the show just like Neelix or Kes and that her character didn't feel the typical embarrassments you learn from growing up in human society but she did not accept this. She clearly understood that this was a choice made by the makers of the show for dubious motives.

Now I'm not suggesting my niece, who has not yet started puberty, understood the full sexual subtext of all of this. But she is bright and what she did understand was that there was a disconnect in how this one character was represented in comparison to everybody else. How this clashed with what she had learnt to expect from Star Trek. That this is a show that values dignity and decency for every individual. It troubled her so much that we had to abandon the episode and I felt I had some pre-emptive explaining to do when she was picked up this morning by my sister-in-law.

I have to say this has left me feeling a bit unnerved and embarrassed about the show and I don't know how easy it will be for me to look past this in the future. I feel it is such a shame because Seven has so many strong feminist qualities. Far more so, in my opinion, than what you get from some of the Mary-Sues of current sci-fi franchises even if the way they are filmed and dressed is more respectful of women.

Something else that might have influenced this is that my niece has grown up in an environment where women are in strong professional roles. Her mum is a senior police officer, her mum's mother is a judge and her mum's sister a physicist. On the other side my mother is a headmistress of a secondary school and my wife is a GP. She goes to a middle class school where the mum's of her friends tend to have similar white collar professions. I doubt she has ever seen a woman dress like Seven of Nine before. My wife suggested the only place you would, in the real world, is the red light district.

In the end Seven's outfit does not make you think it is a free choice. On the show itself, it is the male gendered holographic doctor who selected and designed the outfit (honestly, how could this ever be endorsed by a medical professional?). It all just seems so out of place and as time has passed it is now sticking out like a sore thumb in every episode. It is a sad irony that the one Star Trek show that elevated more women into powerful, classically male dominated leadership roles (CO, chief engineer, chief science officer) than any before should have a problem like this.
 
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Its okay that your niece feels uncomfortable with this style of clothing, but you have your history of Seven's attire wrong and if I may be so bold your decision not to show her "scary" eps has prejudiced her opinion.

Jeri Ryan did indeed nearly faint from her costume, but it wasn't the cat suit.

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It was the Borg suit that constricted her carotid arteries too much in certain positions that caused her to faint.

Meeting Seven in the Borg costume would help your niece focus on her character and would explain certain aspects of her costume after the transformation like the metal on her skull, her arm and the obvious ribbing we see over her abdomen.

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The dermoplastic bandages help her in regenerating her tissue, and it helps to see that they are the same color of her first cat suit.

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Watching her evolve not over just the first few eps but throughout the season is probably why your wife can accept the character and ignore the catsuit.

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Obviously Kate was upset at the idea of anyone coming on board to boost her show's ratings, especially when the someone was so obviously presented in a sexualized manner and I understand that. I don't know what Avery Brooks thought when they brought Worf onto DS9, but I remember an article where the other men on the show laughed that TPTB decided their show needed more testosterone.

Why don't I mind the costume? Because the character they shoved into that costume was a bad ass woman who took no guff from anyone and who was always, ALWAYS projected as a capable intelligent woman.

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What's most important about this character's costume, is that her fellow crewmen/women still treated her with respect and when others didn't treat her thus she dealt with it decisively.

That is a lesson your niece might do well to learn.
 
We do not live in a black and white world. Her costume is stupid but it’s one negative thing about an otherwise good character.

I know moral nuances can be hard for kids, but it’s a concept important to learn that the world not being perfect doesn’t mean you condemn everything with a flaw.
 
Thank Rick Berman.

I saw a brilliant fan-art on Tumblr where someone imagined Seven if she'd been able to choose her own appearance and not had it chosen by The EMH. It was basically an evolved version of her look in "The Gift", with short hair.
 
TOS seems far more problematic than Seven's catsuit could ever be. The depictions of women in TOS were straight out of the 50s and 60s, secretaries and underlings for men. Women outside those roles were few and often crazy, jealous, or just plain needing a man to make their life right.
 
The world runs on sex.
Why pretend it doesn't?
Over 50% of web searches are for porn.
The typical television hosts/weather people are made up of attractive people and svelte women.
There are always women in entertainment (music, television, etc.) that are willing to do whatever it takes to make it big.
Attractive people, whether anyone wants to say it or not, have a huge advantage in life.
The sooner people learn this in life, the better for them.
 
Perhaps you might wish to discuss this with your brother or sister to see how they’d prefer you proceed. It is uncomfortable for a lot of people to acknowledge how early children recognize sexual issues.

Her recognition of Seven’s presentation is an opportunity for her parents and you to have some discussions about how women are depicted in the media.

I agree that TOS’ depictions of women as mostly objects of desire or fridge-fillers are actually more pernicious than a woman in an outfit that accentuated a beautiful body.
 
Several thoughts:

1. It's about her, not you. Make sure your niece's concerns and questions are being addressed, and that you are not leading her.

2. Don't encourage her to feel ashamed about dressing "sexy."

3. Don't encourage her to think it's alright to judge people according to how they dress.

Reading your OP raised some alarms. Your niece may well have been displeased with Seven of Nine's presentation, but it seems that you are reading your own ideas into her concerns. It's perfectly alright to let her come to her own opinion about the character's costuming while pointing out that the character is more than the costume.
 
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I'm not sure I see the issue. If something in the show causes her to ask questions, you just answer them. This includes questions of why a woman is wearing certain clothing. You say that she was "troubled" by the issue to the point that you abandoned the episode, but don't explain exactly what that "troubled" reaction entailed. In my personal opinion, stopping the episode after she asked a bunch of questions only makes the matter worse. It's step one in making the whole thing a more confusing (and perhaps embarrassing) situation.
 
I think women suffer from a lot of cognitive dissonance on this issue. I mean, seems like the majority of women (and all the way down to tween-aged girls) dress like 7 of 9 these days, at least their bottom half: yoga pants. When women start dressing like Handmaid's Tale then maybe it's time to get up in arms over 7 of 9 being out-of-step with our chastity.
 
Seven usually came off as confident, knowledgeable and physically capable. A wonderful example for young girls.

And if young girls choose to wear clothing that's attractive, good for them.
Pretty much my thoughts on the matter. Seven is a great character. I don't even "notice" the skin suit. Not that I don't see it but Jeri Ryan's performance elevates the character above the obvious T&A factor. Seven is bold, confident, takes no crap, and jumps right into the thick of things whenever the crew is in trouble.
 
I think women suffer from a lot of cognitive dissonance on this issue. I mean, seems like the majority of women (and all the way down to tween-aged girls) dress like 7 of 9 these days, at least their bottom half: yoga pants. When women start dressing like Handmaid's Tale then maybe it's time to get up in arms over 7 of 9 being out-of-step with our chastity.

Do you see many girls dressed in skin tight lycra that makes it difficult for them to breathe?
 
The world runs on sex.
Why pretend it doesn't?
Over 50% of web searches are for porn.
The typical television hosts/weather people are made up of attractive people and svelte women.
There are always women in entertainment (music, television, etc.) that are willing to do whatever it takes to make it big.
Attractive people, whether anyone wants to say it or not, have a huge advantage in life.
The sooner people learn this in life, the better for them.

Acknowledging our sexual nature, or celebrating it, does not require us to be sexist or exploitative.

Sexy and sexist are not one and the same, quite the opposite in fact.

There was no valid reason for Jeri Ryan to be singled out in that way (in fact she disliked the catsuit and objected to it, not to mention suffering some health related issues as a consequence).

Porn may well represent a significant portion of google searches, but it doesn't follow that the world operates according to the same rules as a porn movie. We're supposed to be better than that.
 
I'm really thrown by the defensiveness in many of these responses. Way too deep into Star Trek logic, and ignoring the real world outside of that. Yes, Seven's outfit is questionable. It was questionable at the time and it remains questionable to this day. Answering a kid's questions about it would be legitimately tricky, since Seven's presentation actually is a conflicting jumble pulling from opposite ends of the spectrum: sexualized exploitation from the mind of a gross misogynist on one hand, a fantastic empowered character on the other. Your niece is quite perceptive to have grasped so much of this tension immediately upon first exposure to the character. There is much for feminists to enjoy in Seven... almost everything about Seven, in fact... but there is no escaping the disturbing fact that the reason she was added to show at all was to be on screen in that catsuit.

My ultimate takeaway on the outfit always was: thank god they found Jeri Ryan for this part. This is a true triumph of performance and casting. Most actresses would have been defeated by such a garment, she somehow managed to seamlessly assimilate it into the character in a way that made sense. The fact that she consistently turned in such remarkable performances, with the overall quality of writing on this show, in this outfit, in a work environment that was actually abusive... it's a remarkable achievement. I'd go so far as to say it's one of TV's great performances.

That being said, if your niece is disturbed by the characters presentation, that's absolutely valid. Maybe she will warm up to Seven at a slightly older age, in the same way she might with the "scary" episodes. Or maybe Seven will not ever be to her tastes, because it's certainly fair to not be able to see past the costume. I also think someone upthread had an excellent point, that turning off the episode in the middle may have inadvertently created even more negative messages than the episode itself was creating. Not necessarily -- nothing in your OP convinces me this happened -- but I think it's something worth thinking thru carefully. I know I've been guilty of the same mistake myself once or twice -- not being sure what the right answer is, so ending the conversation to buy time to think it out and then readdress later, then realizing the kid is not going to reopen the conversation because when I'd meant to communicate "let's pause this for now", they had heard "this is something shameful you should never talk about again."

Obviously in consultation with her parents, but I wonder if the immediate way forward with your niece and Voyager is Seven exposure therapy -- showing her episodes in which Seven has a minor but positive presence? For example, "The Good Shepherd." Seven has one great scene in this episode, leading the meeting in which she presents the results of her efficiency analysis, during which we see the other characters all deferring to her knowledge and expertise, and then is pretty much off-camera for the entire rest of it. See how your niece responds to Seven in this context, when her costuming isn't so in-your-face for a full hour, and respond accordingly from there.
 
TOS seems far more problematic than Seven's catsuit could ever be. The depictions of women in TOS were straight out of the 50s and 60s, secretaries and underlings for men. Women outside those roles were few and often crazy, jealous, or just plain needing a man to make their life right.
This. TOS depictions of women could be far more troubling than Seven’s costume, and you said TOS was your niece’s favorite series so far.
 
Obviously in consultation with her parents, but I wonder if the immediate way forward with your niece and Voyager is Seven exposure therapy -- showing her episodes in which Seven has a minor but positive presence?
I might be over-interpreting what you mean by "intervention," but I don't think it needs to be a big deal. If the niece doesn't want to watch Voyager, that should be the end of it. If she does, she should be asked what kind of episode she would like to watch. Whatever type she chooses, she should be presented with different options, some of which have more of a focus on Seven of Nine, others that have her in the background (if at all). If she wants to talk about how the character is styled, be sensitive to what she says and don't railroad the conversation in a different direction. It might be that she is confused about how adults express themselves more than how women are objectified in media.
 
I might be over-interpreting what you mean by "intervention," but I don't think it needs to be a big deal.

I didn't use the word "intervention", so I'm not sure what you mean, but I think we're basically on the same page. I agree it doesn't need to be a big deal, I just meant the niece's reaction should definitely be mentioned to the parents, offering them the opportunity to weigh in if they have any specific feelings about how this should go in the future (and it sounds like this already happened the next morning). But I didn't mean that a Very Serious Family Meeting should be convened, with everyone gathered to discuss a matter of grave import.

If the niece doesn't want to watch Voyager, that should be the end of it.

Agreed.

If she does, she should be asked what kind of episode she would like to watch.

Agreed, if that's the way the conversation usually goes. But my sense from the OP is that the adults are just picking the episode for the child, and that everyone likes this setup. If so, I don't think that needs to change just because of this. So my advice of cycling in episodes in which Seven has a minor-but-positive presence would be for that scenario.

But yes, if it is more of a back-and-fourth about what type of episode she'd like to see that night, these preferences could definitely be discussed then.
 
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