Is There A Market For Christian Space Opera Novels?

[Steve Roby]

OH! That reminds me of what I wanted to point out here. TOS Trek seemed a bit more favorable in regards religion/Christianity.

Slightly more conservative time, as far as TV programming was concerned.

"Bread and Circuses" stands out in this regard. The Neo Roman government was trying to stamp out a religious movement that had even swept up one of their best gladiators. Everyone assumes these are Sun worshipers until Uhura points out that, after listening to their broadcasts, they are referring to the SON, as in Son of God.

I'd love to know how that gets translated into other languages so that bit makes sense. No one speaking French is likely to confuse soleil and fils. The other problem with that is, I can't think of any Christians in the real world who describe themselves as Son worshippers, except as a pun.

 

[Shawnster]

The other problem with that is, I can't think of any Christians in the real world who describe themselves as Son worshippers, except as a pun.

The pun is even more interesting when you consider that Christmas is considered a redress of Saturnalia and Sol Invictus (according to Wiki), or the birthday of the "Unconquerable Sun"

But I digress from the topic...

 

[Greg Cox]

To be honest, I always thought that line in "Bread of Circuses" was something of an aberation. The Federation of TOS always struck me as fairly secular, which I believe was Gene Roddenberry's intent.

Then again, I once shared a "Religion and Star Trek" panel with some sort of priest or minister who believed otherwise, and did a good job holding his own.

 

[ToddPence]

The whole problem I have with "Bread and Circuses" is that it seems to adhere to this view of world history: The civilized world was ruled by a decadent, evil Roman Empire. Then along came this group of people called the Christians, who exhibited a policy of total passivity and love of mankind. This philosophy of total brotherhood eventually won over the populace of Rome to such an extent that the old empire passively fell away, to be replaced by a new and better society. That is the way "Bread and Circuses" seems to paint things. And it is a scenario as far removed from reality as can possibly be imagined.

As to the whole issue of Christianity in Science Fiction: another central contradiction between the two mediums is that science fiction tends to encompass a universalist worldview, that is that the Earth is simply part of a greater universe. Whereas Christianity is more of an Earth-centric philosophy in that the Earth is the only planet in the universe that matters.

 

[FordSVT]

Also, not all Christian rock is "overtly Christian."

You might check out Kansas when Dino Elefante was the lead vocalist; there was a definite leaning toward Christian themes; this is when Kerry Livgren left the group and recorded a few solo albums that were also somewhat Christian-oriented. Good music, in both cases; Kansas has a long history of music with a spiritual base, although it tended to be more of a Native American nature in their early - and most successful - years.

That's the thing: there is tons of good music and science fiction that touches on or places a lot of emphasis on spirituality and metaphysics, it's when you stamp that CHRISTIAN (tm) label on it that things start circling the drain. Too much of it is aimed directly at the evangelical market, which, like people have said in this thread, is typically conservative and safe and ideologically in conflict with a lot of the themes and values that make the best science fiction and rock n' roll.

Not saying it's impossible, just saying why it's not common.

Oh, and both Creed and Jar of Clay suck balls. Creed did start as a Christian band, Scott Stapp figured out he wouldn't be able to bone as many drunk chicks if people found out once they made it big, so they started denying it and stopped putting as much thematic material in their albums. No need to pick on Amy Grant if you're into that kind of soppy adult-contemporary fluff.

 

[Neroon]

Books, folks. We're talking about books.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

As to the whole issue of Christianity in Science Fiction: another central contradiction between the two mediums is that science fiction tends to encompass a universalist worldview, that is that the Earth is simply part of a greater universe.

Okay, fine so far...

Whereas Christianity is more of an Earth-centric philosophy in that the Earth is the only planet in the universe that matters.

Okay, now you lost me.

Nowhere in Christianity is that ever said, or even implied.

I mean, it's not in the Bible, true. But how much science fiction had been written at the time the Bible was?

 

[Neroon]

There is John 10:16: "And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they shall hear My voice; and they shall become one flock with one shepherd. Certainly that verse can be interpreted in a variety of ways, but perhaps the phrase "other sheep" that includes life elsewhere. That really is a stretch, but you might rationalize a "Christian/sci-fi" melding that way.

Me personally... I don't have a problem with the idea, even in my somewhat to the conservative side of moderate. That's a large part of why I'd be interested to read something of what's being discussed here. The idea is intriguing. After all, "Wondrous is man and mysterious the ways of God."

 

[William Leisner]

I just recalled an excellent story involving Christianity (specifically Catholicism) beyond Earth: "Sanctuary" by Michael A. Burnstein. The link is to an excerpt at the Analog Magazine site, and Michael just recently published a collection of his stories, including this one, called I Remember the Future. Well worth checking out.

 

[Neroon]

I am really enjoying the sight of all of these suggestions on existing works to read. My wife & I are always on the look for new reads like this.

 

[Trent Roman]

Books, folks. We're talking about books.

I looked too quickly and read the 'k' as another 'b'. Now I'm disappointed.

Whereas Christianity is more of an Earth-centric philosophy in that the Earth is the only planet in the universe that matters.

Okay, now you lost me. Nowhere in Christianity is that ever said, or even implied.

Christianity, as a religion, has always desired to represent itself as being the center of the universe, metaphorically when it can't get away with do so literally--though it's not entirely it's fault, as that's partly an inheritance of the 'chosen people' strain in Judaism. For millenia, Christendom has placed itself at the center of all things, chosen by God to be at the top of biological and cultural hierarchies alike. Medieval maps put Jerusalem at the center of the world; into the Renaissance and beyond, the officiators of the faith refused to accept heliocentric conceptions of the universe because obviously Earth and humans were the most important of God's creations and thus central. They are the apple of God's eye, to the point that even some angels become jealous--surely, then, there cannot be other worlds and other species to displace us as the divine favourites? Even where the specific beliefs have receeded in the face of undeniable scientific evidence to the contrary, the attitudes of hierarchism, centralism and exceptionalism persist in all but the most liberal versions of the faith. It is not a religion that adapts quickly or willingly when confronted by difference, as conflicts with constantly redefined 'outsiders' demonstrate. Aliens would be a major, radical addition to that Christian distrust of that which falls outside Christendom.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[FordSVT]

Books, folks. We're talking about books.

I was talking about science fiction, books included, and music is being used as an analogy relevant to the discussion. Sorry for the Creed comment, but I hardly think it's going to derail the thread.

 

[Mysterion]

Christian space opera is sort of like Christian rock: the problem isn't that it doesn't exist, so much as what has been done is really, really bad. Some genres, of liteature or music or what-have-you, are simply conceptually incompatible.

"You're not making christianity cooler, you're just making rock worse." - Hank Hill on christian rock

Says it all.

 

[FordSVT]

^And Hank Hill is a Christian.

95% of deliberately Christian music and fiction doesn't suck because it's Christian, it's because people with small talent are trying to exploit a market with low standards. They wouldn't be able to cut it in the mainstream doing anything else. They are only listening to it or reading it or watching it because it's "Christian", not because it's good.

 

[Neroon]

Books, folks. We're talking about books.

I was talking about science fiction, books included, and music is being used as an analogy relevant to the discussion. Sorry for the Creed comment, but I hardly think it's going to derail the thread.

Nevertheless it has, so the caution still stands. We are supposed to be discussing books where the genre is science fiction merged with Christianity. Christian music does not fall into that classification.

However, Christian music can be an excellent topic for discussion. The Miscellaneous forum would doubtless be a good breeding ground for it.

 

[Morpheus 02]

Dayton,

Check your PM for a part of my idea for actually a sci-fi series.

 

[Shawnster]

^ Aww.. come on, share!

 

[Falcor5]

I havent read this whole thread but I would like to recommend the "Space Trilogy" by CS Lewis. Some really great Sci-fi and Fantasy in those three books IMO.

 

[blockaderunner]

Creed? Jars of Clay? Amy Grant started out Gospel but has since gone mainstream. A lot of your old Country and Bluegrass singers fit into the Gospel realm .

Which proves Bart Simpsons quote that "All the best bands are in league with Satan ".

Seriously, the notion of "Christian Rock" has always been rediculous. As another animated philosopher, Hank Hill, once said on the subject: "You aren't making Christianity cool. You're making rock music look stupid,".

Mahalia Jackson and Rev Al Green proved that you can make spiritual music that is also GOOD art. Crap like Jars Of Clay, Creed, Newsboys, and all the bland, mostly white artists that you see advertised on third tier cable networks with scenes of audiences, also mostly white, raising their hands in unison with their eyes closed in a scene that looks like part Republican convention and part Nazi rally, is just brainwashing tripe for an impressionable and ignorant segment of the population.

I also hate Veggie Tales too.

 

[Neroon]

Thanks for getting the thead closed. Anyone honestly wanting to discuss the merits/demerits of Christian music feel free to do so in the Miscellaneous forum.

Dayton, I hope you've gathered enough material. If not, you can start a "Part 2" thread.