Is the quantum signature of the Kelvin Universe the same as that of the Prime Universe?

[Tim Thomason]

My gut tells me that, in the Trek multiverse, there is a difference between timelines (emanating from a specific universe based upon actions within that universe that effect causality) and universes (a near-infinite collection of universes all breaking off from the Big Bang). Different universes have different quantum signatures (although, not necessarily), but timelines emanating from the same universe (Yesterday's Enterprise, Time Squared, possibly the Kelvinverse) do not.

The mirror universe and the Parallels parallels were not shown to be caused by an external factor, unlike almost every other alternate timeline/reality/universe in Trek. They might be identical to the main Trek universe up until a certain point (The Borg take over Earth, the Roman Empire never falls, Worf gets a different cake), but this point was not affected by temporal indiscretions. Just by the quantum signature of the universe making quantum changes along the way.

Now the Kelvinverse has all the people who argue that it is not a rewriting of history (like Yesterday's Enterprise, Time Squared, Children of Time, much of the Temporal Cold War, etc.), but the creation of an alternate universe. It might be meaningless, since we suppose that an identical Prime universe continues to exist. It's possible that the red matter made it into a new universe (whatever), and explains why Spock and Nero never faded or flickered away. In that case, they might have different signatures.

I don't pretend to know the science behind any of it, and I'm probably forgetting some important detail in Trek's contradictory history of time travel. In another universe, I probably voted the correct way.

 

[Shawnster]

I like that suggestion that the quantum signature is binary, that it is detected as either from this universe or not, and not that it's some quantum fingerprint with its own quantum address

 

[The Wormhole]

Considering people actually look different in the Kelvin Timeline than they do in the Prime Universe, I highly doubt they have the same quantum signature.

 

[lawman]

Given not one of us has any real idea what a "quantum signature" is or how it works other than being a phrase that gets used periodically to provide a means to identify something from another universe, I'm going with "don't have a clue"

Well, it's what you get when a subatomic particle like a quark signs something. We've seen a Quark in Trek; he runs a bar on Deep Space 9. Clearly then, whenever he signs the bill for a new shipment of booze, he creates a new quantum signature! QED.

 

[Spot261]

If they ever revealed the answer on a future star trek movie or series they would probably write it as the Prime and Kelvin universe having different quantum signatures since they are different universes without giving it much thought.

Yeah, I think there's a danger of overthinking this stuff. "Quantum signatures" are a plot device, they are simply a means by which a character can forensically identify an object or person as not belonging. How that works will conveniently always be whatever is required to make the story work.

It's like a fingerprint or DNA in a detective show, it tells character A what he or she needs to know about character B. The difference is it does it without any conceptual framework based in real science to limit how it is portrayed, simply a fictional quasi science which has almost certainly not been considered in any real depth because doing so would miss the point.

If one really wanted to be pedantic, they could ask if a person from another universe continues to have a different quantum signature even when normal metabolic processes would have replaced their own molecules with ones native to the universe they currently inhabit. But that would be pedantic. And silly

 

[Tim Thomason]

Considering people actually look different in the Kelvin Timeline than they do in the Prime Universe, I highly doubt they have the same quantum signature.

They don't look different. They have different actors.

 

[marsh8472]

They don't look different. They have different actors.

Different actors don't look different?

 

[Tim Thomason]

Different actors don't look different?

Of course they do. The different actors are (for the most part) playing the same characters. Just like in the original timeline, we see Ishka, Tora Ziyal, and Captain Braxton change actors with no comment, the same happens with the Kelvin Timeline. "Spock Prime" has no problem instantly recognizing Jim Kirk, despite the fact that he's played by Chris Pine instead of Bill Shatner, because Jim Kirk looks the same as Spock remembers him from a few years later.

It's likely that Sulu, Uhura, and definitely Chekov are different looking blokes, as are most born after 2233.04.

 

[Spot261]

Do actors from different trek franchises have the same quantum signature?

 

[marsh8472]

Of course they do. The different actors are (for the most part) playing the same characters. Just like in the original timeline, we see Ishka, Tora Ziyal, and Captain Braxton change actors with no comment, the same happens with the Kelvin Timeline. "Spock Prime" has no problem instantly recognizing Jim Kirk, despite the fact that he's played by Chris Pine instead of Bill Shatner, because Jim Kirk looks the same as Spock remembers him from a few years later.

It's likely that Sulu, Uhura, and definitely Chekov are different looking blokes, as are most born after 2233.04.

They even have different eye colors

Spock may have used his telepathy to recognize Kirk rather than his physical appearance. There may be something to it like they're in a different quantum reality, Q, or a section 31 plot.

We've seen something similar when Odo linked with some of the crew in this episode:

From DS9 "Thing's past"

SISKO: And we should be. Humans, Trills and changelings didn't just stroll through Terok Nor unnoticed.
GARAK: Then I should be getting some attention as well. We are in the Bajoran sector, and Cardassians weren't exactly welcome here.
SISKO: I don't think they see you as a Cardassian. I'm beginning to think they don't see any of us as who we really are.
GARAK: The clothes we're wearing are Bajoran. They're treating us like Bajorans.
SISKO: Maybe they see us as Bajorans. Any theories, old man?
DAX: Some kind of cross-dimensional transfer? Our conscious minds might've been moved through time and space into the bodies of four Bajorans on Terok Nor.

Q altered Picard's appearance to others in this episode:

Q: That's Captain Q to you, young man.
PICARD: What's the point of creating this fantasy?
Q: This is no fantasy, I assure you. It's all very real. You're twenty one years old again. A brash young man, fresh out of the Academy.
PICARD: I certainly don't look it.
Q: Well, to everyone else you do.

They could be on a holodeck too.

 

[Timo]

They even have different eye colors

Which may be like saying they have different hair color, come the 23rd century...

Spock may have used his telepathy to recognize Kirk rather than his physical appearance.

...Especially considering how much Kirk was wearing at the time. OTOH, perhaps his cold weather uniform featured a discreet name tag?

Spock's telepathy doesn't work well at exposing impostors. He never catches on to the Salt Vampire, and can't tell Kirk apart from Garth of Izar. Supposedly, a full meld with physical contact would be required for mental ID, unless the mental relationship between Kirk and Spock grew more intense after "Whom Gods Destroy".

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Jedman67]

Considering people actually look different in the Kelvin Timeline than they do in the Prime Universe, I highly doubt they have the same quantum signature.

If I could forge my boss's signature I can forge the Universe's Quantum Signature, no sweat

 

[marsh8472]

Which may be like saying they have different hair color, come the 23rd century...



...Especially considering how much Kirk was wearing at the time. OTOH, perhaps his cold weather uniform featured a discreet name tag?

Spock's telepathy doesn't work well at exposing impostors. He never catches on to the Salt Vampire, and can't tell Kirk apart from Garth of Izar. Supposedly, a full meld with physical contact would be required for mental ID, unless the mental relationship between Kirk and Spock grew more intense after "Whom Gods Destroy".

Timo Saloniemi

Spock's telepathy may have improved over the years

 

[Timo]

Or then it's a simple process of learning how the world works. You meet somebody in an obscure corner of deep space, in circumstances involving a last-second rescue, odds are that Jim Kirk is involved... Scotty apparently got it, too.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[The Wormhole]

They don't look different. They have different actors.

The comics acknowledge that the characters themselves do look different. They did a crossover story involving the Prime Universe TOS cast and the Kelvin movie cast meeting up, and that they look different is mentioned in dialogue.