Only with DISCO would there be complaints about less "pew-pew."
Spoilers Is the Klingon War within canon?
- Thread starter timmy84
- Start date
Attacking Earth in general includes an attack on starfleet headquarters. I doubt that armada was going to just leave starfleet headquarters alone
The actually decisive thing here is that the Klingons did not dare attack Earth. They turned back because they feared the consequences too much. Which is the very thing Martok is speaking about, and reinforces what he is saying.
Why nobody in the Trek universe wages war by nuking enemy homeworlds till they glow is still left largely unestablished. But apparently MAD plays a major role there.
Timo Saloniemi
Why nobody in the Trek universe wages war by nuking enemy homeworlds till they glow is still left largely unestablished. But apparently MAD plays a major role there.
Timo Saloniemi
Not necessarily.
Earth isn't a dinky colony world with a handful of settlements like Corvan II. The Klingon attack would be a protracted campaign, likely starting with the elimination of orbital defenses, seizure of Space Dock, then moving onto the surface to establish a foothold. Starfleet Headquarters being one of the most fortified points on the planet would take a specially organized attack, which the Klingons didn't get a chance to try before the war ended.I
The Breen, by contrast, weren't trying to conquer Earth, so they were content to whip in for a lightning raid, accomplishing something the Klingons never got around to. Martok's statement stands.
ok so the conversation should have been more like this to be clear with his comparison:
KIRA [OC]: We just received a priority one transmission from Starfleet Command. The Breen have attacked Earth.
[Captain's office]
(On the monitor we see that Starfleet HQ is a wreck and the Golden Gate Bridge has a big hole in the middle.)
SISKO: I had a lot of friends in those buildings. Starfleet was able to destroy most of the Breen attack force, but by then most of the damage had been done.
MARTOK: We must give the enemy credit. To launch an attack on Starfleet Headquarters. Even my people never attempted that.
SISKO: Wait didn't your people send an armada to Earth in 2257? That sounds like an attempt to me
MARTOK: Not on Starfleet Headquarters, we were trying to take over the whole planet that time
SISKO: So that's not considered attempting to launch an attack against Starfleet Headquarters?
MARTOK: Nope, the ships have to fire for it to count as attempting to launch an attack plus the specific target has to be specifically Starfleet Headquarters. So what I said is technically correct in my opinion. We've learned one thing about the Breen today, Captain. They're a race of warriors.
SISKO: Ok
Yes, exactly...obviously that is the only way it could be taken...and Vulcans were never conquered either...
SISKO: Wait, didn't your people send an armada to Earth in 2257? That sounds like an attempt to me-
MARTOK: If only... But no, a bunch of us hovered behind Jupiter for about one day, trying to work up the courage. And then turned back because they were too afraid of the consequences.
Martok is saying the Breen have more guts than the Klingons. DSC simply shows how true this is.
Timo Saloniemi
MARTOK: If only... But no, a bunch of us hovered behind Jupiter for about one day, trying to work up the courage. And then turned back because they were too afraid of the consequences.
Martok is saying the Breen have more guts than the Klingons. DSC simply shows how true this is.
Timo Saloniemi
The Klingon's actually made it all the way to Earth by the end of the episode and then pulled away. The Breen didn't have an explosive device in their planet waiting to go off if they didn't abort.
He should have said this instead:
MARTOK: We must give the enemy credit. To launch an attack against Starfleet Headquarters. Even my people, the Borg, the Xindi, the Probe, and V'Ger never attempted that. We've learned one thing about the Breen today, Captain. They're a race of warriors.
And?
They sort of did, which is the very reason Martok is amazed. It's difficult to tell whether the device went off or not: the Breen sign nothing in "What You Leave Behind", and stand right next to Cardassians and Starfleet/Klingons/Romulans in what might count as the winners' podium (perhaps they officially disavowed the Dominion at the last second?).
Unlike the Klingon case, fear of retribution did not stop the Breen. Although something obviously did, because Starfleet Headquarters still stand after the attack.
As for the need for a list, there's none in Martok's statement. None of the threats you list are "races" anyway, save for the Xindi. (Whether they tried to hit Starfleet Headquarters initially is unknown - perhaps their aim was as bad as the workmanship of their probe?)
Timo Saloniemi
With the way the war was described as a bunch of Klingon houses running wild, it was never officially recorded in Klingon history. Which is why Martok didn't know about it, I couldn't see the Klingon House(s) responsible for singing about the retreat from Earth and recording in their history, it is even possible it leads to the dissolution of those Houses because of the great dishonour. Also since they never attacked Earth, Starfleet history probably records the war as a skirmish akin to the Cardassian Wars, from what we know the Klingons have been adversaries for decades and continue to be decades after this war, they probably record it as one giant war with a spike in hostilities. It isn't hard to fit it into canon.
There weren't enough chairs. They were in the room when the surrender occurred. Plus there was that Breen looking down in defeat. Nope there was no bomb on the Breen homeworld.
They never said they were afraid and were ready for retribution or they wouldn't be heading to Earth. It was just one of those "Destroying an Empire to win a war is no victory and ending a battle to save an Empire is no defeat." Kahless moments.
Maybe the Breen weren't targeting starfleet headquarters either. They could have been targeting something else and missed, hitting starfleet headquarters instead perhaps. We don't know if the Breen were in control of their ships when they attacked earth either. Maybe the dominion took control of their ships with the same technology used to take over the Defiant in episode "Adversary"
These were times the Borg were referred to as a race
TNG "I Borg"
CRUSHER: I just think we should be plain about that. We're talking about annihilating an entire race.
GUINAN: If you are going to use this person to destroy his race, you should at least look him in the eye once before you do it. Because I am not sure he is still a Borg.
VOY "Scorpion"
JANEWAY: In the words of Jean-Luc Picard. 'In their Collective state, the Borg are utterly without mercy, driven by one will alone: the will to conquer. They are beyond redemption, beyond reason.' And then there's Captain Amasov of the Endeavour. 'It is my opinion that the Borg are as close to pure evil as any race we've ever encountered.' What's so funny?
CHAKOTAY: We'd be giving an advantage to a race guilty of murdering billions. We'd be helping the Borg assimilate yet another species just to get ourselves back home. It's wrong!
TNG "Q Who?"
Captain's log, supplemental. We have been attacked without provocation by an alien race which Guinan calls the Borg. It appears that we have neutralised their vessel. Commander Riker is leading an away team in an attempt to learn more about them.
VOY "Inside Man"
HARKINS: And this is the research lab where most of Pathfinder's homework gets done. All the datastreams are compressed here and then transmitted all the way to the Delta Quadrant. Your teacher tells me you've been studying some of the Delta Quadrant races that Voyager's described to us. Who can name one for me?
GIRL 1: The Talaxians.
HARKINS: Very good.
GIRL 2: The Ocampa.
HARKINS: That's right. Who else?
BARCLAY: The Borg! The Borg! They assimilated my hologram. That's how it disappeared.
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there, the Klingon War within a cannon, if somebody needed photographic evidence. You're welcome.
If someone uses the term canon as in short for canonical then they are referring to continuity and canon as the same thing
Yes, because nothing could change in 100 years, give or take...
The Klingons were always warriors. Starfleet wasn't that old by the time of DSC. It took till the Dominion war to see how many ships SF had amassed by that era.
In the alternate timeline of YE, Starfleet must have buitl a shitload of ships, thus making the war take longer.
