The Changeling virus was the result of a purely civilian effort, section 31.
Is the Federation too powerful?
- Thread starter cheekygirl
- Start date
Section 31 isn't civilian. But I can see your point that Section 31 isn't military. They have no oversight from anyone other than themselves.
Hmmm, then what are they? They aren't military and they aren't government
(as I understand it), so what are they? They're either a terrorist organization
or a hyper-patriot militia group (or both), but either way that makes them
civilians.
They're a criminal conspiracy which justifies its operations by claiming that they are somehow authorized by a provision from the old United Earth Starfleet Charter (Article 14, Section 31) which stated that regulations can be bent in times of crises, but which at no point stated that a specific organization could be founded to operate with immunity to all laws.
In other words: Section 31 is just an illegal cabal, mostly comprised of Starfleet officers, and nothing more.
And winning by way of other criminal conspiracies to do with forged data rods.
Technically, peaceful countries are usually stronger because they have more resources at their disposal. When they are not spending money on military or some other weird stuff, people prosper and have a lot of money. Sciences, philosophy, literature, arts....all prospers during peace time. If they had, to they can pull their resources together to defend their country. During World War II when the U.S. was doing nothin and minding our own business, we prosper and when it came time to fight, they pulled their resources together and blown the Germans back to hell where they came from.... They got together withe Brits and created one of the best fighter plane ever....the Mustang. People fighting for the common good and what they believe in usually have the advantage when it comes to being courageous and working together, and so they become almost invinsible in a way....
But, I don't know how the UFP economy works, though! I think we're more communists by that time! [laugh]
But, I don't know how the UFP economy works, though! I think we're more communists by that time! [laugh]
They have Starfleet Officers as operatives, so that right there eliminates them as civilian.
A civilian organization is either a government run organization that is overseen by civilians (FBI, CIA), or a purely civilian entity (Time Warner Cable).
Section 31 operates outside of the UFP government or the UFP knows it's there but let's it go about (black ops). They have no office, no headquarters, but seem to have infiltrated Starfleet and the UFP government at all levels. I think they are the UFP's black ops organization. They get caught the UFP can claim them to be a terrorist group, or deny all knowledge and give the UFP President, Council and Starfleet plausible deniability.
I'd say no. First off, I think the Dominion War arc in DSN showed that the Federation wasn't too powerful -- after all, tney needed the Klingons and Romulans to help them repulse just a portion of the Dominion that invaded the Alpha Quadrant. Plus, they needed the Prophets to dispatch the huge Dominion invasion force that tried to make its way through the wormhole. Arguably, that large force may have been able to overhwhelm the Federation, Klingons and Romulans, plus whoever else were there allies (Ferengi).
For whatever it's worth, the novels contradict this when Section 31 assassinates the Federation President shortly after he resigns from office.
... no, it wouldn't. The development I describe in the spoiler tag supports the idea that they're a criminal conspiracy that no one controls whatsoever.
Yeah it would. I am making huge assumptions since I haven't read that novel (and not revealing the spoiler is kinda tying my hands) but PD gives any part of the government or its organizations the ability to deny any responsibility or knowledge. Maybe the book doesn't take that into account, I don't know, but either way Section 31 operates without any oversight by any one and therefore can give all of the Federation Government and Starfleet PD.
Section 31 is a creature of Deep Space Nine and Deep Space Nine, by intent, is a darker place.
Should S31 actual be a black ops unit within the Federation government's equivalent of the CIA, then things like assassinating one's own predecessor would not be impossible. Especially if that individual possessed information that would be harmful to the new government or administration, and perhaps was going to revel it to the public (maybe a tell all book?).
Again Deep Space Nine is a darker place.
In the book, Section 31 feels the Federation President has betrayed the Federation's ideals and values and decide to allow the President to publicly resign. They then take him and his staff into custody and execute them. According to the book, the President himelf doesn't know who/what Section 31 is, but his staff is well aware of them.
Well, I don't think it's so much that they think President Zife betrayed the Federation's ideals and values per se as that they felt that he endangered the Federation and got thousands of Federation citizens killed for no reason. To them, it was less about any sort of idealism and more about simple revenge for having killed so many Federates and exposed the Federation to potential war with the Klingon Empire with his criminal negligence.
The situation is also a bit more complicated. Starfleet had already uncovered what Zife had done and its head admirals had hatched a plan to force Zife to resign at gunpoint (keeping his crimes secret from the Klingons and therefore preventing a war). Section 31 contacted Admiral Ross beforehand and allowed Ross and the other admirals to force Zife to resign. Then, as soon as Zife agreed to do so, Section 31 agents entered the Palais de la Concorde, promising to escort Zife to a ship that would take him home. As soon as they enter the room, the other admirals -- who were not in on Ross's deal -- and the only two members of Zife's administration, his Chief of Staff and his Secretary of Military Intelligence, recognize them as Section 31, though Zife does not. The implication is that they were *all* terrified of Section 31.
Further, the sequel novel, "Articles of the Federation," makes it clear from Ross's internal monologue that he believes that if Zife's successor, President Nanietta Bacco, ever became aware of the existence of Section 31 or of their role as Zife's assassins, she would be assassinated, too.
The situation is also a bit more complicated. Starfleet had already uncovered what Zife had done and its head admirals had hatched a plan to force Zife to resign at gunpoint (keeping his crimes secret from the Klingons and therefore preventing a war). Section 31 contacted Admiral Ross beforehand and allowed Ross and the other admirals to force Zife to resign. Then, as soon as Zife agreed to do so, Section 31 agents entered the Palais de la Concorde, promising to escort Zife to a ship that would take him home. As soon as they enter the room, the other admirals -- who were not in on Ross's deal -- and the only two members of Zife's administration, his Chief of Staff and his Secretary of Military Intelligence, recognize them as Section 31, though Zife does not. The implication is that they were *all* terrified of Section 31.
Further, the sequel novel, "Articles of the Federation," makes it clear from Ross's internal monologue that he believes that if Zife's successor, President Nanietta Bacco, ever became aware of the existence of Section 31 or of their role as Zife's assassins, she would be assassinated, too.
Bottom line: The novels make it clear that Section 31 is a rogue criminal conspiracy that has infiltrated the Federation government and Starfleet, but does not answer to either one.
They couldn't. They were lying to Zife when they said that, and posing as regular Starfleet officers. The two administration officials who knew who they really were didn't say anything because they knew they were already dead, and because they didn't want Zife to panic on live TV when delivering his resignation. They knew full well Section 31 would kill them and Starfleet would keep their secrets.
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