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Is the Federation communist?

qmithani

Ensign
Red Shirt
I'm a big Star Trek fan, the Federation is a perfect society, where money, and greed do not exist. This could represent a perfect communist society as the famous theorist Karl Marx suggested. Communism is a failed society, but could it work in the future as utopia?

I would be happy to read people's opinions.
 
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I don't belive it to be ''Communist'' And I really don't see Communism working in a ''future'' utopia EVER!
 
It's not communist. Even though there are some indications that it could be, there is other evidence that it's not. You cant' cherry pick the evidence.
 
Marxist, I would say for sure. I believe there are a lot of threads on marxism/communism being apparent in Star Trek.
 
Socialist would be a better description, since the people seem to be in charge unlike communism.
 
Socialist would be a better description, since the people seem to be in charge unlike communism.

You do know that Communism is suppose to be the end product of Socialism? With a classless society and the means of production in Workers ownership along with a society geared towards general needs not profit?
(at least in theory:shifty:)
 
"Communist" is strong.

But the Federation, or at the very least life on Earth, would seem to be heavily socailist.
 
Good thread qmithani:techman:

Only thing is in "Encounter at Farpoint" when Q dresses up as & acts a 20th Century American Anticommunist, Picard looks at Q as though he had 5 heads & has Patrick Duffy & Larry Hagman for legs.

Seemed the whole philosophy of Communism & it's ideological antithesis were extinct "primitive" mindsets by Picard's day.

My impression anyway.

But all through Trek we've seen traders who're Fed citizens. Surely they're "capitalists" of a sort yes?

Maybe 24th Century economics/finance is some sort of win-win for all:hugegrin:

Seems it's New Year's Eve & July 4th every day on 24th Century Earth.

:confused:
 
The Federation is not communist, no. It's something we can't even comprehend with today's mindset.

But they have personal freedom, a reasonably benevolent government, and private enterprise is allowed, so no, they're not communists as we would understand the term.
 
If the UFP is Communist, how & why would Joseph Sisko, Captain Benjamin's pop, OWN a profitable New Orleans restaurant:confused:

Feds ain't reds dudes:cool:

They're something better, different than 2009 Earth folks could ever muster.

Seem to found a way to be all things to all people that works:hugegrin:

24th Century Earthfolk found a way to make, bake, have their cake & eat it too:beer:

Hell, they're having & eating their own cupcakes as well I'd assume too yes?

:)
 
Actually, we don't know if Sisko's father actually does it for money or "for a living", as we would put it. The culture of a true post-scarcity environment is surely to be... different. (It's one of those strange brainbugs people have about practical post-scarcity that not having to "sell one's labour" to eat means everybody will just "do nothing.")

ST Earthers are certainly different than us, but I hardly say better except for their material condition. In the ST case, at least, post-scarcity hasn't done anything to combat a mass atrophy of intellect.
 
we heard that the don't use money. I always thought of it as a socialist gov't. people are able to make money. We are also thinking of communism by todays standards and not by what it really means.
 
Socialist would be a better description, since the people seem to be in charge unlike communism.

You do know that Communism is suppose to be the end product of Socialism? With a classless society and the means of production in Workers ownership along with a society geared towards general needs not profit?
(at least in theory:shifty:)

Actually, both Socialism and Communism have the same goal/end product, the difference is that Communism tries to reach it by revolution, while socialism tries to reach it through democracy.
 
^Not from a Marxist viewpoint, iirc.

The real difference between strains of socialism/communism is between the tactics of those like Vlad Lenin and those of people like Eduard Bernstein.

A lot of people bandy about the term "post-scarcity" economy but I'm not really sure what that's supposed to mean. Yes, they have replicators--so what? That merely makes things cheaper, not free. If they're run on fusion or antimatter power, scarcity is merely moved up the economic food chain to the energy regime on which their society is based. Practical fusion may utilize fuel plentiful enough to be almost free, but even so our deuterium resources are quite finite and may be calculated, and given the outrageous energy expenditures transporters, replicators, and holodecks must have, I submit fusion may not be practical. Antimatter would fit the bill but it is of course not plentiful at all in this neck of the woods and must be produced somewhere from other energy resources. I positively reject standard solar power as a means to energize atomic reassemblers on a worldwide scale.

But regardless of source, no supply is infinite, but only conscious limitations keep demand from being so. In the Federation, either those limitations are innate, a result of our "evolved" sensibilities, or they are externally enforced, by a bureaucracy that oversees energy quotae for Federation citizens. In likelihood, a combination of both is evoked.

The Federation is likely a command economy. No physical or monotonous labor is required, with most of the foundations of the economy surely being automated. Intellectual, creative labor seems to flow naturally from the ideologically indoctrinated populace, and I don't mind this, as the people who do the best work in creative fields would probably do it whether they got paid or not, especially if their basic requirements of food, shelter, and entertainment were being met whether they did anything or not.

As there is still a democracy, ultimately power over this command economy rests in the hands of the people, but they probably don't bother exercising it, because the status quo is close to perfection: I suspect a majority of people in the Federation are lazy holoaddicts. And really, why blame them? Their ancestors sacrificed and worked precisely so that such a utopia could be attained. Of course, there are still those who are ambitious and dream of more... these sort of impulses are sublimated into the civilian economy as described above and Starfleet, whose purpose is to learn all that is learnable and extend the frontiers of the Federation's ability to tap energy sources, whatever those may be.

All in all, it's communist, but it's pretty sweet.
 
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