Is the Empire a Theocracy?

[Doctorwhovian]

Emperor Palpatine of course was a Sith lord, and even though his nature as a Sith was not revealed until TPM (Previously-going mostly by the movies-Vader was the only known Sith lord), his nature as a Dark side user of some sort was established in ESB and ROTJ.

Of course in the first Star Wars, Vader is considered the only remnant of the Jedi's religion by Tarkin, and of course he's mocked by Admiral Motti. The concept of the Emperor probably hadn't been fleshed out at this point-he's mentioned of course but the novel and some other source material paints him as sort of a weak-willed ruler (Sort of like TPM's Valorum). In ESB and ROTJ, Vader's orders are still questioned at times, but the Imperial officers seem to have a fear of him all the same.


It's also sort of implied a bit that the general populace of the Republic isn't really aware of Palpatine's "religion" anyway, although he's quite open about it when talking with Vader in his arrival scene in ROTJ. He of course keeps his dual identity secret from both the Republic and the Seperatists/Trade Federation (Although there's a bit of weird continuity in which the Viceroy in AOTC, according to Dooku, felt betrayed by Sidious...and yet he's taking orders from him in ROTS).

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I doubt it. Palpatine is a Sith Lord, but he doesn't place his legitimacy in being a Sith Lord. If anything, the religion of the Force is probably closer to illegal than accepted. Obviously, the Jedi are banned and if Han's atheism is anything to go by, I wouldn't be surprised if the official position was that Jedi never really had powers in the first place (given the size of the Empire, it's possible that most people never actually met a Jedi anyway). Certainly, there's nothing indicating the general population or even the Imperial fleet worshiped the dark side of the force (the fact that Siths were restricted to two kind of made that inadvisable anyway).

 

[Doctorwhovian]

Yeah, that makes sense-part of Palpatine's seduction of Anakin and reasoning for creating the Empire is that he convinced people that the Jedi were attempting to take over, which would be a theocracy of sorts too. Although Mace-at least at first-would've turned Palpatine over to the Senate.

Makes you wonder though how he explained Vader though-maybe as a Jedi loyal to the Republic/Empire who was an exception.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

If anything, I see it more like a totalitarian state that suppresses religion in the name of stamping out competing ideologies.

There has to be some major propaganda and threat of punishment at work to wipe out almost any knowledge of the Force within a generation or two. Luke is completely unfamiliar with it (granted, his uncle would have cause to suppress it in his home to keep Luke from becoming like Anakin, but his friends are unfamiliar too, and they hang-out near a spaceport) and Han, who actually lived when the Jedi were still around, denies the very existence of the Force. Admiral Motti openly mocked it as borderline superstitious nonsense before Vader demonstrated why his lack of faith was misplaced.

I think the inner circle of the Imperial leadership, and people who were adults when the Jedi were still around know about it, but the younger generations have been subjected to intense reeducation programs and a total media blackout on the subject in order to suppress its very existence so if any new Force wielders are discovered they won't have any frame of reference about what to do with them, or how to train them. It prevents potential threats from rising up against Vader and Palpatine.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Obviously, the Jedi are banned and if Han's atheism is anything to go by, I wouldn't be surprised if the official position was that Jedi never really had powers in the first place (given the size of the Empire, it's possible that most people never actually met a Jedi anyway).

If anything, I see it more like a totalitarian state that suppresses religion in the name of stamping out competing ideologies.

[...]

Admiral Motti openly mocked it as borderline superstitious nonsense before Vader demonstrated why his lack of faith was misplaced.

Yeah, it seems to me probably that the Empire promoted a wholly secular value system via cultural imperialism through totalitarian means, not unlike how the Soviet Union dominated Eastern Europe.

 

[Ithekro]

Considering the reaction to Jedi in Rebels and A New Hope, the Empire has been very effective in wiping their deeds and nearly existance out of the pubic record in less than a generation. It has been less than 20 years since the end of the Clone Wars and people more or less think the Jedi are a myth. Even some of those that are clearly old enough to have been around during and before the Clone Wars (Han Solo would have been around ten years old at the end of the war, and most likely would have at least heard about the Jedi Generals' exploits during it).

Even Imperial officers and people who were in their twenties or even older during the war seem to not really know what the Jedi did or were about.

Though the start of the Revenge of the Sith novel does give a nice image of how the Galaxy views the Jedi. The adults are becoming skeptical as more Jedi are either killed or go insane (turn to the Dark Side). The novel goes into the fears of the Republic as Seperatist warships orbit Coruscant and rumors that the Chancellor has been taken captive. But the novel also does something that I wish the movie had in it. It gives the childrens point of view. The children aren't afraid. They know everything will be alright over Coruscant. Skywalker and Kenobi will be there. And the children are right. The last glimmer of hope and the nearly unvincible team of Skywalker-Kenobi is what make it so the children are not afraid.

When Palpatine turns Skywalker, then hope is lost...until there is another Skywalker and Kenobi arriving on the Death Star 19 years later.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

FWIW, I think it's clear most people in the galaxy had never met a Jedi. Young Anakin thought they were immortal and couldn't be killed. I imagine others had similar misconceptions. Others, perhaps, already didn't believe they had any powers. And with the Empire's propaganda, they began to doubt even more about them.

 

[Mr Light]

I love Star Wars, but changing the Clone Wars to only being 20 years ago (they were originally 50) really creates some problems. Even if not every person in the GFFA didn't see a Jedi with their bare eyes... they were all over the Holo Net news. It's not really something they cover in the franchise, but one can only assume there are endless hours of footage of Jedi in action that everybody watches. That has been reported as news for centuries. Anyone alive during the Clone Wars or before would have a pretty hard time swallowed that all as CGI or something.

 

[Ithekro]

There are maybe 1,000 -10,000 active Force users in the Galaxy before the Clone Wars. That is Sith, Jedi, and other. By the end of the war, there are maybe 100 of all kinds and all power levels. In a whole populated galaxy that is maybe three quarters explored and at least half settled to a high degree. With possibly satelite galaxies as well. Some of it for many thousands of years. The core systems for several tens of thousands of years. (Star Wars seems stagnate in some respect given the timeframes we are given. Though we've only seem about a 5,000 year spread through most of the fiction).

Of those 100, only four are known to be highly skilled users (Palpatine, Vader, Kenobi, and Yoda). Other have skills (Asokha and other surviving Padawans, Night Sisters, and the like). And others are just raw and unskilled (Luke, Leia, and Ezra)

 

[Mach5]

Quite the opposite, the galaxy under his rule was more secular than ever before. Think about what the Jedi represent and consider their role. It is the equivalent of knights templar being the military wing of the European Union.

 

[Doctorwhovian]

The Rebellion does however use "May the force be with you/us" in ANH and ROTJ. (I don't think it was used by Leia or any other rebels in ESB although Luke does say it to Lando and Chewie at the end of the movie, but then again he's into the force anyway).

In the Legends EU, it's established that Dodonna (The guy who does the briefing in ANH) is a former Republic/Imperial officer who fought alongside the jedi in the clone wars, so that sort of makes sense. (Not sure if he'll get a new backstory in the new more canon EU).

I wonder if that briefing might've been meant in an earlier draft for Obi-Wan, since he was originally supposed to survive the Death Star and his advice to Luke during the battle would've probably been over the radio or comm or whatever instead of a disembodied ghost voice.

 

[Dr. Funkenstein]

It's an autocratic stratocracy.

 

[Beagleman]

[...] It is the equivalent of knights templar being the military wing of the European Union.

Now here here we have an idea for some alternate reality fiction...

 

[Set Harth]

With possibly satelite galaxies as well.

There are definitely at least two satellite galaxies. We can see them on the map screen Obi-Wan looks at in AOTC.

 

[Jedi_Master]

Considering the Empire's documented efforts to capture Force-sensitives, repress any knowledge of the Force, and suppression of the true nature of Palpatine's power and Sith affiliations, there is no religious element to the Empire, and indeed they could be considered to be highly anti-religious.

 

[Cutter John]

"Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerer's ways, Lord Vader. Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped you conjure up the stolen data tapes, or given you enough clairvoyance to find the rebels' hidden fortress..."

 

[Doctorwhovian]

It's also sort of implied in the Prequel films and from interviews with George Lucas that the Sith ruled the galaxy before the Jedi overthrew them and the Republic was established ("Once more the Sith will rule the galaxy" "The Sith have been extinct for a millenium" "This republic has stood for a thousand years" "There hasn't been a war since the formation of the Republic etc.), so perhaps a good reason to keep the Sith thing a secret. Although at least Anakin knew that Palpatine at least was aware of Sith "legends" before he knew he was a Sith.



(The EU of course has many Sith empires here and there but that's all been tossed out)

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

It has been less than 20 years since the end of the Clone Wars and people more or less think the Jedi are a myth. Even some of those that are clearly old enough to have been around during and before the Clone Wars (Han Solo would have been around ten years old at the end of the war, and most likely would have at least heard about the Jedi Generals' exploits during it).

Then how does that account for Jabba? Though he mocked Luke, he did not want him admitted (to me, that implies a fear of sorts), and realized Luke was using Jedi mind control on Bib Fortuna & himself. Acknowledging it meant he--like Han--had been around in the age of the Jedi, but Jabba did not deny their existence.

What's Han's excuse?

 

[Doctorwhovian]

Some earlier concepts for ROTS actually had a young Han with Chewbacca on Kashyyk helping Yoda, making that even more kind of bizzare.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

What's Han's excuse?

Uh, he'd never seen anything to make him believe that there was one, all-powerful Force controlling everything. Instead, he thought it was all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense.