Is the bridge at a funny angle?

[blssdwlf]

I disagree. The bridge is designed in sections so I think the reference to 8 sections and then 10 sections is a strong indication that the pilot bridge was incomplete. No it does no implicitly state that, but it also never mentions that they redid the section layout. Plus we never see those two sections in the pilots and we see them in the first produced episode after that. While that is indeed my interpretation, I believe that it is the correct one from the quotes and the nature of the bridge design.

Are you two referring to TMOST, p102 and 106?

 

[BK613]

Are you two referring to TMOST, p102 and 106?

That's what I've been looking at mostly. Memory Alpha also quotes those pages in their article about the bridge construction. And I'm just not seeing what @yotsuya is seeing in those comments about there being an incomplete bridge. In fact, the footnote on page 102 about the eight to ten change uses the word modified not completed.

 

[TIN_MAN]

And if both lifts were on the ship's centerline, there would be an actual design reason for an offset bridge.

I think that's why Franz Joseph put the gangway leading to deck two in that location in his deck plans, to somewhat justify the offset bridge design (even though he had the second exit in more or less the same location as in TAS.).

 

[Mytran]

LOL, even TAS did the occasional short 3 post rail like in WNMHGB

Actually, WNHGB kept them full 3-section (4 post) rail net to Spock; it was only in the series itself when they started to cheat.
However, good observation of TAS - I wonder if the image was traced together from several different images? That would explain the 2-section hand rail (cribbed from behind Spock), the unusually wide turbolift alcove (it looks the same width as the regular one, which it shouldn't be) and the lack of steps by the viewscreeen.

 

[BK613]

Actually, WNHGB kept them full 3-section (4 post) rail net to Spock; it was only in the series itself when they started to cheat.
However, good observation of TAS - I wonder if the image was traced together from several different images? That would explain the 2-section hand rail (cribbed from behind Spock), the unusually wide turbolift alcove (it looks the same width as the regular one, which it shouldn't be) and the lack of steps by the viewscreeen.

We discussed the three post rail in WNMHGB upthread. An example:
https://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x03hd/wherenomanhasgonebeforehd164.jpg

 

[blssdwlf]

Actually, WNHGB kept them full 3-section (4 post) rail net to Spock; it was only in the series itself when they started to cheat.
However, good observation of TAS - I wonder if the image was traced together from several different images? That would explain the 2-section hand rail (cribbed from behind Spock), the unusually wide turbolift alcove (it looks the same width as the regular one, which it shouldn't be) and the lack of steps by the viewscreeen.

Next to Spock, perhaps. But I was pointing to the short 3 post rail in WNMHGB visible here.
https://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x03hd/wherenomanhasgonebeforehd161.jpg

Which is the same location that TAS used so they probably traced it from WNMHGB.

 

[Mres_was_framed!]

Yeah, the island was rotated half a slice to port and the viewscreen was rotated i think a full slice to port. If you look at this screencap you can see the port-side railing forward of the helm is shorter by one section compared to the other rails.
https://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x03hd/wherenomanhasgonebeforehd196.jpg

So it's like the helmsman has the viewscreen offset for just him and the navigator doesn't get a view

Edit: Found an earlier diagram of this. Please ignore the unknown section as we do see it when Kirk enters the bridge.

Edit Correction: It looks like the island and rails were rotated to starboard (facing forward) by half-a-slice and the forward port railing was reduced by a segment.

I'm wanting to grasp something from this diagram and it is not clear to me because the command module is the constant in this diagram, not the turbolift.

You say

Yeah, the island was rotated half a slice to port and the viewscreen was rotated i think a full slice to port.

I get that the command module is aimed more-or-less at the half-station in the 2nd pilot, and not the viewscreen. So I understand this:

Yeah, the island was rotated half a slice to port

What I don't understand is where you say

the viewscreen was rotated i think a full slice to port.

It looks like, relative to the other upper-level stations, and the turbolift, the viewscreen is in the same place.

Can you clarify this?

If the stations are all in the same place, then the bridge is the same size all along.

If the stations are in different places, then is is possible that it was only built for eight sections, and then expanded. I do not think this is the case, as the plans I have seen always showed the same number as part of the design, and the diagram shows 10 sections all along (possibly with some permanently connected to make 8 movable sections), just with some not shown onscreen.

EDIT: Fixed a bunch of quoting errors!

 

[yotsuya]

So here are the facts (without interpretation)
In The Cage we see the following - all stations from the viewscreen around the port side to the science station. In addition we see the railing, platform, and a half height console (closer to the viewscreen) in the space where the 2 stations in question belong. The island is centered on the comm station and the viewscreen and the railing fills in on both sides all the way around.

In WNMHGB we see the half station starboard of the viewscreen around the port side to the science station. We also see the half height station (which explodes) and it is closer to Science. We see the new railing configuration, but with the island offset by a half station, the forward port section only has 2 instead of 3. Both aft railings are 3 sections. Kirk and Spock both use the starboard side stairs. We I think the only part of the other railing section we see is the first next to the viewscreen.

The two sections are notable for their total absence from both episodes.

The bridge was moved to it's new location and rebuilt using fiberglass panels.

Starting with The Corbomite Maneuver we see every section of the bridge. The two sections are often not shown, but make frequent appearances. I didn't read that anyone had seen any major changes in season 1. For season 2 we have noted that the railing dividing points were enhanced. Also in season 2 we get a nearly full circle view of the bridge, but on the starboard side, they moved Spock's science station one section forward. So that shot is 3 sections shy of the full bridge (the missing station, comms, and the elevator). The last time I can find (without a detailed viewing) those two sections were used was Is There in Truth No Beauty.

I also noted that the above discussed shot with Chekov from By Any Other Name was not the first time the island was rotated to change the background. Also happened in The Cage where Jose Tyler is sitting at the navigation station and behind him is the middle port section (environmental engineering?) with its distinctive Constitution Class profile and top diagrams and you can also see the two adjoining stations. I'm not sure why they moved it that time because the normal background should have been the comm station with science and the elevator to either side.

So we have the Tyler shot, the Chekov shot, and Kirk walking around the front of the bridge in The Doomsday Machine where the bridge was not assembled correctly (we could add all of WHMHGB since the island was off by a half section). Anyone think of other times when they shot it using an unusual setup?

 

[blssdwlf]

I did a quick survey of "The Cage" bridge.

From what I can tell, the starboard side stations forward of Communications (station directly behind Pike and next to turbolift which I labeled as Station 5) are never filmed as part of the bridge. With the exception of a BTS photo, Spock's library station (Station 4) console and instrumentation (with the printer) is shown only in close-up. His large view screens are also shown with Spock but not next to the other stations. In the BTS photo "ST 358", the view screen images do not match the close-ups with Spock.
Station 3 is never shown from what I can tell.
Station 2 is shown only from behind and only the lower console. The instrumentation and upper viewscreens are removed for the camera.
Station 1 is shown from the side and behind with the full stack and with the instrumentation and view screen removed. There are also BTS photos suggesting that Station 1 had targeting disks instead of the a traditional viewer.

It is evident that the full port and starboard rails for the lower section are not dependent on the presence of the different stations as you can see them in the BTS photo with Station 2 and 3 removed.

Click image for full-size (large image warning!)

 

[blssdwlf]

Ahh okay yeah my first diagram was not very clear.

Here is an updated version. The helm/pit area is rotated to starboard half-a-station. Along with the rotation the rails have also been rotated with the forward-port rail shortened by one section from a 4-post rail to a 3-post rail.

Edit: I don't believe there is strong evidence that two stations were not built based on the text in TMOST and what was filmed. An argument could be made that one full-size station is missing as it doesn't appear on film or BTS. However, the text from TMOST reads as if MJ planned and built all 8 stations so it is entirely possible that the one missing station was never filmed because the cameras needed to be there.

It would've been cool to see BTS of the individual sections to understand how they were divided up in the pilots and series.

I'm wanting to grasp something from this diagram and it is not clear to me because the command module is the constant in this diagram, not the turbolift.

You say



I get that the command module is aimed more-or-less at the half-station in the 2nd pilot, and not the viewscreen. So I understand this:


What I don't understand is where you say



It looks like, relative to the other upper-level stations, and the turbolift, the viewscreen is in the same place.

Can you clarify this?

If the stations are all in the same place, then the bridge is the same size all along.

If the stations are in different places, then is is possible that it was only built for eight sections, and then expanded. I do not think this is the case, as the plans I have seen always showed the same number as part of the design, and the diagram shows 10 sections all along (possibly with some permanently connected to make 8 movable sections), just with some not shown onscreen.

EDIT: Fixed a bunch of quoting errors!

 

[Mres_was_framed!]

Ahh okay yeah my first diagram was not very clear.

Here is an updated version. The helm/pit area is rotated to starboard half-a-station. Along with the rotation the rails have also been rotated with the forward-port rail shortened by one section from a 4-post rail to a 3-post rail.

Edit: I don't believe there is strong evidence that two stations were not built based on the text in TMOST and what was filmed. An argument could be made that one full-size station is missing as it doesn't appear on film or BTS. However, the text from TMOST reads as if MJ planned and built all 8 stations so it is entirely possible that the one missing station was never filmed because the cameras needed to be there.

It would've been cool to see BTS of the individual sections to understand how they were divided up in the pilots and series.

Thank you for the reply and the explanation with new diagrams. The image you linked to is particularly interesting because, as you noted, even for the pilots it shows that there is only one station that could be missing, with the understanding that what you call "Station 2" (Weapons later on) might only have existed with a console and no upper screens.

Because what you call "Station 3" (Asistant Navigator later on) is right in the middle between two stations we definitely saw in the first pilot, and then we see over that station in the second pilot, it seems like there is evidence they all were built, perhaps with at least one the two not having the upper screens. This might explain the reason the Weapons station has a unique smaller single screen, if its upper section was built later and therefore did not match the others exactly (not sure if I like that explanation, as I would prefer some reason related to it being a Weapons station, lol).

Also interesting is that if this woman is at the Weapons stations, she might be on one of the new crew assignments after injuries, and that is why Pike does not recognize her aloud as a woman on the bridge.

 

[yotsuya]

I did a quick survey of "The Cage" bridge.

From what I can tell, the starboard side stations forward of Communications (station directly behind Pike and next to turbolift which I labeled as Station 5) are never filmed as part of the bridge. With the exception of a BTS photo, Spock's library station (Station 4) console and instrumentation (with the printer) is shown only in close-up. His large view screens are also shown with Spock but not next to the other stations. In the BTS photo "ST 358", the view screen images do not match the close-ups with Spock.
Station 3 is never shown from what I can tell.
Station 2 is shown only from behind and only the lower console. The instrumentation and upper viewscreens are removed for the camera.
Station 1 is shown from the side and behind with the full stack and with the instrumentation and view screen removed. There are also BTS photos suggesting that Station 1 had targeting disks instead of the a traditional viewer.

It is evident that the full port and starboard rails for the lower section are not dependent on the presence of the different stations as you can see them in the BTS photo with Station 2 and 3 removed.

Click image for full-size (large image warning!)

And impressive collection and catalog of photos. you are missing one. When Tyler runs around the bridge we see at least a piece of every station except the two in question. And in ST 358 we can see the science station clear enough to determine that it is the same station that Spock is standing in front of in the two photos in the orange box. The two small screens have the same artwork and pattern. And in the photo of the single large screen you can see enough of the console underneath to tell that it is the left side and the details match the science station. Interesting to note, we can see the seam in the middle of the science station that was never there in the series (which makes sense since they were cast in fiberglass).

As for your labeling, I prefer to leave them unnamed for the pilots and just call them from the viewscreen as port 1, 2, 3, and starboard 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

 

[blssdwlf]

And impressive collection and catalog of photos. you are missing one. When Tyler runs around the bridge we see at least a piece of every station except the two in question.

When Tyler runs around the bridge he ends up running past the half-Station 1 and pushing aside the person that is sitting at Station 2. So technically, only Station 3 is unaccounted for.

And in ST 358 we can see the science station clear enough to determine that it is the same station that Spock is standing in front of in the two photos in the orange box. The two small screens have the same artwork and pattern. And in the photo of the single large screen you can see enough of the console underneath to tell that it is the left side and the details match the science station. Interesting to note, we can see the seam in the middle of the science station that was never there in the series (which makes sense since they were cast in fiberglass).

If you look at ST 358 and compare the view screen patterns to what is behind Spock you should notice that they do not match. Spock doesn't appear to me to be standing in front of Station 4 (science station) to deliver his lines.

 

[SpocksTricorder]

Mitch Hedberg already covered this. "Bigfoot pics are blurry because Bigfoot is blurry."

 

[BK613]

@blssdwlf Re: Spock's location. The upper monitor pattern does seem to match the one on the Engineering station (6) next to the turbo-lift even though the lower eight graphics do not (the ones on the printout section (4) are a close match but maybe lit differently). So either station 3 has the same upper screen setup as 6 or the they swapped out the lower graphics and used 6 for the closeups.

Nice summary graphics BTW.

edit to add: I took one of the images where the Talosians are running the records and brightened it. You can see under the viewer that one graphic panel is half the height of the one next to it (similar to what we can see in the BirdoftheGalaxy BTS closeup of the printer station.)
You also can see what looks like an instrument boxy thing but not the printer (because it doesn't come up that high on that side.)

This image
https://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/0x00/thecage393.jpg
lightened

(also, that crazy light bleed)
edit to strikeout stuff that turned out to be in error.

 

[blssdwlf]

Whoa. You may have just found another console/instrument panel

The monitor next to the printer station (at Station 4) comes up to the half-height instrument panel above it on the right side. The one you brightened has the top of a monitor? come up on the left side which suggests a console that wasn't seen on the bridge...

edit to add: I took one of the images where the Talosians are running the records and brightened it. You can see under the viewer that one graphic panel is half the height of the one next to it (similar to what we can see in the BirdoftheGalaxy BTS closeup of the printer station.)
You also can see what looks like an instrument boxy thing but not the printer (because it doesn't come up that high on that side.)

This image
https://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/0x00/thecage393.jpg
lightened

(also, that crazy light bleed)

 

[Mres_was_framed!]

So does "The Cage" possibly not show the actual console and panel station 2 (Weapons), and instead use Station 4 (Science Station) for the insert shots?

 

[BK613]

Whoa. You may have just found another console/instrument panel

The monitor next to the printer station (at Station 4) comes up to the half-height instrument panel above it on the right side. The one you brightened has the top of a monitor? come up on the left side which suggests a console that wasn't seen on the bridge...

Or not. A closer examination of the BirdOfTheGalaxy closeup shows that there is an upper part of the printer that gets lost in the reflective red glare. You can see that by looking at the closest side of the printer that it curves up at the edge of the photo. And you can see the edge-on top extending to the right passed the bottom of that half-sized graphic panel. So that does appear to be the printer station after all. Darn it.

 

[Mres_was_framed!]

Spock has a sensor viewer, gooseneck viewer and a library terminal here:
https://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x03hd/wherenomanhasgonebeforehd047.jpg

Alden has a gooseneck viewer but no additional library computer terminal or sensor viewer.
https://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x03hd/wherenomanhasgonebeforehd086.jpg

However, not only is Spock's gooseneck viewer not visible in this shot (even though the edge of the sensor viewer is visible, and the library computer is shown well), but what appears to be the nub where the gooseneck viewer is removed is visible!
https://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x03hd/wherenomanhasgonebeforehd248.jpg

Is that evidence that Station 2, the "printer station" (Weapons) and Station 4 (Science Station) were similar but separate copies that were used for some insert shots?

 

[F. King Daniel]

No it was the same size as the TOS bridge - it fitted the extra Turbolift station by removing the half-console to the left of the viewscreen:

Now I'm not too sure how accurate that bridge layout graphic is. If you look at the second turbolift exit, it's a duplicate of the turbolift alcove between communications and engineering and wider than the half-segment given here.