Is Starfleet Military?

[Vger23]

Guys. Seriously. Stop.

 

[BK613]

I mean, if the term "military " wasn't treated with such disdain these arguments would go easier.

That's the thing though, isn't it? The mold was set TNG-wise between the Fall of Saigon and the Invasion of Kuwait, when—culturally in the mainstream—the military was viewed with disdain in the US.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

That's the thing though, isn't it? The mold was set TNG-wise between the Fall of Saigon and the Invasion of Kuwait, when—culturally in the mainstream—the military was viewed with disdain in the US.

Saigon didn’t fall. It stood up, kicked the fucking invaders out and still stands today.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

I also asked ChatGPT, but at the end it just said it's a matter of perspective.

Well, it would.

The one thing you can trust CGPT not to do is take a definite standpoint.

 

[fireproof78]

That's the thing though, isn't it? The mold was set TNG-wise between the Fall of Saigon and the Invasion of Kuwait, when—culturally in the mainstream—the military was viewed with disdain in the US.

Guess that's why it pains me. My uncle was at the fall of the embassy at Saigon and was treated poorly when he got home.

Regardless of what one thinks of the Vietnam conflict, that disdain sits poorly. Especially since a military doesn't have to be doing anything like that conflict and can still be a military protecting national interests, like protecting grain, ferrying diplomats, or defending boarders all stuff Starfleet has done.

 

[BK613]

Saigon didn’t fall. It stood up, kicked the fucking invaders out and still stands today.

Psh. I just used the term that is commonly used for that day in 1975. The day that marked the end of the Vietnamese War.

Guess that's why it pains me. My uncle was at the fall of the embassy at Saigon and was treated poorly when he got home.

Yeah, that was the point of my post. No respect for those that served or those that were serving.
These days, if people find out I'm a Navy vet, they thank me for my service. Back then, best I could hope for was a few lines from a certain Village People song.

 

[Farscape One]

Agreed. People tend to forget that the armed forces are a voluntary service, and the people who chose to defend and protect the U.S. do so at the risk of their own lives, whether it's fighting in a war, protecting dignitaries, or providing relief efforts in a dangerous area. It takes a certain level of self sacrifice that so many aren't capable of to be a part of something like that, and our soldiers and vets deserve far more respect and better treatment when they come home. (Especially those who fought in battles and came home with PTSD or were crippled or both.)

I've felt many times that a requirement to be a politician should be to have served in one of the branches. We might end up with politicians that are not as self-serving and corrupt. (Of course, this doesn't guarantee it. But I'd wager that having politicans with that kind of background, they'd more likely actually serve the people and not just serve a party or a corporation because they understand things like duty and service are not just simply words or a slogan.)

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Psh. I just used the term that is commonly used for that day in 1975. The day that marked the end of the Vietnamese War.

The Vietnamese call it the Liberation of Saigon, because that’s exactly what it was.

 

[fireproof78]

I've felt many times that a requirement to be a politician should be to have served in one of the branches. We might end up with politicians that are not as self-serving and corrupt. (Of course, this doesn't guarantee it. But I'd wager that having politicans with that kind of background, they'd more likely actually serve the people and not just serve a party or a corporation because they understand things like duty and service are not just simply words or a slogan.)

This was something that I would debate with my uncle about after I had read "Starship Troopers" and done research in college about the very low participation rate of voting in the United States (at the time it was roughly a 1/3). I quite liked the idea of some sort of social service, note just military but other forms of federal service, that provided for participation in the political process. While maybe not for voting, but at least for more political leadership type roles within a country to at least show that service to the country and that sense of duty carry weight when making decisions.

And even in Star Trek this is not a foreign idea. One of Voyager's crew members joined Starfleet because he needed that experience. Starfleet, regardless of the rhetoric, has a very strong pull inside Federation society. So it would seem that such a service ideal for political aspirations is closer to Trek than maybe it would first appear.

 

[Nyotarules]

Oh, joy.

This is back.

Joy to the Trek, the military thread is come.....

 

[Nyotarules]

I had a definitive answer for this question, but I got sidetracked thinking about whether or not Jellico was a good Captain or not, and if he would have murdered Tuvix.

And where does he keep his money....

I've felt many times that a requirement to be a politician should be to have served in one of the branches. We might end up with politicians that are not as self-serving and corrupt.

Not realistic or going to happen but political requirements, have served in combat, have served in the armed forces or whenever combat service is required, all politicians' children over 18 will be called up. And must retire from politics at the age of 60.

 

[BK613]

The Vietnamese call it the Liberation of Saigon, because that’s exactly what it was.

Or Black April. I guess it depends on which Vietnamese you talk to.
And isn't it Ho Chi Minh City now? I mean, even the the name fell.

Seriously though, this is a lot of angst when my only intent was to poetically bookend a period of time in the US.