Is Star Trek homophobic?

[T'Girl]

Because the absence of evidence is evidence in itelf, right?

It does indicate a protract pattern of behaviuor on the part of TPTB.

Like that Jadzia Dax/ Lenara Kahn thing. Nobody even mentioned the fact that they're both women.

But that was more of a old friends kiss, not a sexual/romantic kiss.

Women of course do kiss in our culture.

Athough now that I think about it, apparently not in the 24th century. other than the kiss mention, when did any other women even cheek kiss?

The Outcast.

The J'naii are an androgynous species that view the expression of any sort of male or female gender, and especially sexual liaisons, as a sexual perversion. According to their official doctrine, the J'naii had evolved beyond gender and thus view the idea of male/female sexuality as primitive.

What I got fronm the episode is that the J'naii do have genders, both male and female, what happen is their society desided to do away with traditional gender roles. They were still men and (in the case of Riker's girlfriend) women. They were culturally forbiddion to psychologically key in to a gender identity, but again they did have physical genders.

 

[Patrickivan]

Because the absence of evidence is evidence in itelf, right?

It does indicate a protract pattern of behaviuor on the part of TPTB.

Like that Jadzia Dax/ Lenara Kahn thing. Nobody even mentioned the fact that they're both women.

But that was more of a old friends kiss, not a sexual/romantic kiss.

Women of course do kiss in our culture.

Athough now that I think about it, apparently not in the 24th century. other than the kiss mention, when did any other women even cheek kiss?

The Outcast.

The J'naii are an androgynous species that view the expression of any sort of male or female gender, and especially sexual liaisons, as a sexual perversion. According to their official doctrine, the J'naii had evolved beyond gender and thus view the idea of male/female sexuality as primitive.

What I got fronm the episode is that the J'naii do have genders, both male and female, what happen is their society desided to do away with traditional gender roles. They were still men and (in the case of Riker's girlfriend) women. They were culturally forbiddion to psychologically key in to a gender identity, but again they did have physical genders.

When it boils right down to it, Star Trek never came out with any specific out right message other then that of the human equation. The fact that they didn't specifically make a certain group feel representative is more a case of that groups over sensitivity.

They advocated equality, civilility, tolerance, love, and hope, over and over and over. It was beaten like a war drum in Star Trek.

So why take it so personally because you didn't see a gay person outright? In fact, you're jumping to a huge conclusion that there weren't gay people. But just like in our society, they are amongst us every day.

 

[Nick086]

I remember they were supose to make Elim Garak Bisexual in the series. I believe he was supose to have some kind of relationship or attraction towards Dr. Bashir.

 

[DonIago]

Perhaps gay people feel more sensitive to it because they're one of the demographics that can't be easily identified simply by appearance and yet is one of the demographics still facing one of the highest degrees of discrimination, even in the supposedly enlightened United States.

The reality is that there's nobody on Trek who a gay person can look to and say "Cool, they know what it's like to want to be intimate with someone of the same gender," while non-gay people don't have this problem.

Or, put bluntly - WTF is the person we're supposed to look up to who also reminds us of ourselves?

And if that's us being oversensitive, maybe we'd be less sensitive about it if non-gay people didn't often seem so intent on reminding us of how different we are rather than how similar we are.

I happen to be a gay Jew (by ethnicity, not really practice) myself, and if I thought Jews still faced significant discrimination in this day and and age (and maybe they do and I'm just blinded to it) then I'd like to think I'd get this bent out of shape about the lack of obvious Jews in Trek as well...and let's avoid making any Ferengi comments here...

When we live in a time where I feel homosexuals generally -are- accepted, I'll be less put out about a show set in the future that preaches equality for all but can't even show that my demographic survives into the time period in which it's set. There's nothing right now to stop one from theorizing that in the future of Trek gay people are "extinct", and that's an awful statement to make when we are persecuted as much as we are in the modern day.

 

[BillJ]

Or, put bluntly - WTF is the person we're supposed to look up to who also reminds us of ourselves?

No offense... but if you need someone on TV to positively reinforce who you are, then you may have some issues that a professional needs to evaluate.

I don't look for Star Trek to give me a positive role model... I just want 'big, fun sci-fi adventure'. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Sci]

When it boils right down to it, Star Trek never came out with any specific out right message other then that of the human equation. The fact that they didn't specifically make a certain group feel representative is more a case of that groups over sensitivity.

Would you feel the same way if, say, every single character in all of Star Trek had been black, or Asian, or Native American, or Polynesian, or Aboriginal Australian, but never, ever white?

 

[OmahaStar]

No offense... but

Could you possibly be more offensive if you tried?

 

[BillJ]

No offense... but

Could you possibly be more offensive if you tried?

I'm pretty sure I could. But the point stands, how were people able to survive before TV came along to make them feel better about themselves?

 

[NX-01]

Because the absence of evidence is evidence in itelf, right?

It does indicate a protract pattern of behaviuor on the part of TPTB.

But that was more of a old friends kiss, not a sexual/romantic kiss.

Women of course do kiss in our culture.

Athough now that I think about it, apparently not in the 24th century. other than the kiss mention, when did any other women even cheek kiss?

The Outcast.

The J'naii are an androgynous species that view the expression of any sort of male or female gender, and especially sexual liaisons, as a sexual perversion. According to their official doctrine, the J'naii had evolved beyond gender and thus view the idea of male/female sexuality as primitive.

What I got fronm the episode is that the J'naii do have genders, both male and female, what happen is their society desided to do away with traditional gender roles. They were still men and (in the case of Riker's girlfriend) women. They were culturally forbiddion to psychologically key in to a gender identity, but again they did have physical genders.

When it boils right down to it, Star Trek never came out with any specific out right message other then that of the human equation. The fact that they didn't specifically make a certain group feel representative is more a case of that groups over sensitivity.

They advocated equality, civilility, tolerance, love, and hope, over and over and over. It was beaten like a war drum in Star Trek.

So why take it so personally because you didn't see a gay person outright? In fact, you're jumping to a huge conclusion that there weren't gay people. But just like in our society, they are amongst us every day.

Agreed. Star Trek always has given a very strong 'Everyone is equal' message......I just hope in our future Earth really can have that level of tolorance.

 

[Nerys Myk]

No offense... but

Could you possibly be more offensive if you tried?

Come on, its not like he refered to a female character as a slut.

 

[Nightdiamond]

Some of your average shows, from our time, especially reality shows, frequently show women kissing each other.

However I think that may be more acceptable to the general audience simply because of how "sexy" it is.

But there are shows that also show openly gay men.

Not to claim it is ideal or anything, but it is joked about, or discussed somewhat more openly.

It is rather strange that a show set in the 24th century would not display it as easily as our shows now in the 21st century.

I think Trek (intentionally or unintentionally) may have already established that the standard pairing would be male and female regardless of how odd it may be.

But to introduce openly gay characters after that point would affect the "comfort level" on both sides-some viewers and producers, so it kind of got stuck in that pattern, series after series.

I still have to give a thumbs up to Trek for being optimistic.

Most sci-fi set in the future shows focus only on the technology, aliens and the fact that it is the future.

Trek made it a point to say humans solved their most pressing problems and the future is a great place to live in.

 

[stj]

Modern Trek is homophobic.

I read someplace that after they did The Chute, Tom and Harry never had another scene alone on Voyager. My memory isn't encyclopedic but on reflection this seems to be true.

Homophobic.

 

[T'Girl]

So why take it so personally because you didn't see a gay person outright? In fact, you're jumping to a huge conclusion that there weren't gay people. But just like in our society, they are amongst us every day.

No assumptions are being jumped too, the fact is that no gays are being depicted. Sure you can say that some or many of the people running around in the background on screen "could" be gay (or not).

All major character's sexuality's are account for, and somehow they are all mysteriously heterosexuals. Given the number of major character shown through the years and the various series, statistically one, two or more of them, instead of being heterosexuals, should have been gay. Part of their personality should have included being sexually attracted to someone of their own gender.

Many of the secondary characters are also accounted for sexually, when shown, they're all straight.

Or, put bluntly - WTF is the person we're supposed to look up to who also reminds us of ourselves?

No offense... but if you need someone on TV to positively reinforce who you are, then you may have some issues that a professional needs to evaluate.

I know better than to hold my breath waiting for Star Trek to show a character who is a bi-sexual celibate transgender . Although it would be nice.

I do think that it is perfectly normal to want to see people on screen who you can identify with, I like seeing major characters who are female, major characters who are Hispanic. In both of these two examples, Star Trek did place someone on screen who was a depiction of such. Bring forward a gay (Human) character is no different.

to introduce openly gay characters after that point would affect the "comfort level"

Good.

 

[DonIago]

"No offense... but if you need someone on TV to positively reinforce who you are, then you may have some issues that a professional needs to evaluate."

Who said anything about need?

However, considering that studies have consistently shown that gay youth in general face more pressures growing up than straight youth, I fail to see how it would be anything other than a positive step to present them with someone they could identify with in the media, and where better to do that than a television show where the very message is about having hope for the future, overcoming differences, and treating people equally regardless of their origins?

Instead, taken in the admittedly worst-possible way, Trek shows that same-gender relationships are beautiful things...if you're alien, or already different in some way so that you're not "really" being gay, or if you're doing it as some sort of show of power or dominance over weaker people...and then it only happens when you're in a universe where morality has fallen by the wayside for centuries.

 

[OmahaStar]

Is Star Trek homophobic?

In short, yes.

You're wrong.

Well, as long as a random stranger on the internets says it, then it must be true.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

What great opportunity? Trek has never handled relationship drama well in any way. It woulda been a train wreck.

So, you think Moore, Braga, and Co. were forward-thinking enough to neatly avoid the issue?

No.

But based on their collective track record of abysmal straight relationships and sophomoric sex scenes that look like they were written by the writers of Animal House, I'm glad they never tried to give us a gay character or relationship.

QFT.

Look at the poll in the original link, 40% no, on a site that obviously is going to attract the core fanbase of Trekkies. I know if I were the producer of a new Star Trek series, which had an uphill battle to survive, that number would sure make me think twice about any gay characters.

 

[Gotham Central]

Actually, I do think that homophobia was at work on the production of all of the trek series.

For instance, on the TNG Trill episode, people have noted that Dr. Crusher could not deal with Odan as a woman. What a lot of people forget is that Gates McFadden HERSELF protested that ending and found it in appropriate.

In the TNG episode The Offspring, Data defines love as being something that develops between a man and a woman. Once again, members of the cast, including Whoopie Goldberg, protested the way the scene was written and again they were overruled.

Keep in mind that the script for Blood and Fire was written for TNG, gay themes and all....someone that was NOT GR pulled thte plug.

I can recall a specific incident on Voyager that SCREAMED homophobia...it was the episode where the Doctor inhabited Seven's body. At some point in the episode a male character starts hitting on Seven/Doctor and the Doctor recoils in horror at the very thought of that happening.

During the production of Enterprise....SOMEONE made an executive decision to put an end to Archer and Trip's late night conversations and hanging out because there were rumors flying around the net that their relationship might be more than friends. Someone put an end to that fast because Trip and Archer started spending a lot less time together and around the same time we got the silliness of A Night in Sickbay...and the suggestion that Archer needed to spend some time with a woman.

 

[Elias Vaughn]

I love hot, fornicating lesbians but I don't want them in Star Trek if there's no reason for it.

There's always room for hot, fornicating lesbians.

 

[Itisnotlogical]

Very few movies have ever included a gay character. Does that make them homophobic?

 

[BillJ]

Very few movies have ever included a gay character. Does that make them homophobic?

Yes.