Is star trek a in good enough place

[tesral]

To say it. TOS was ALL THE TREK THAT WAS for my entire childhood and into young adulthood. But I'm a SF nerd in general, books, film what ever. Star Wars was wonderful, a movie that entertained first*, and was Space Opera too! TMP WAS MORE TREK! WoK, then TNG it was good to be a Trekkie. So no, it is not my thing and my thing only. My thing can be almost anything.

*The seventies Ghodd save us was the heyday of the "message film" It was not meant to be entertaining, you Philistine. The message was the important part. The message I'm pounding you in the head with!

I agree with this, attributed to Sam Goldwyn of MGM. “If you want to send a message, use Western Union.”

 

[JonnyQuest037]

People will overthink anything.

Hmmm, I wonder what fireproof78 meant by that. Was that directed at me specifically, or was that more of a general statement? And just how much thinking is overthinking? Shouldn't I continue thinking about something until I arrive at some sort of conclusion? Or is there a point you arrive at where you sincerely are thinking about something too much and doing more harm than good? And if am overthinking, how will I know it? Is there a consistent sign of overthinking I should be on the lookout for? Shit, am I overthinking now? Should I be using italics instead of bold for emphasis in this post? Or should I just get rid of them completely and assume that my emphasis will be clear from the context? I'm so confused...

 

[tesral]

Fans overthink. Intense fans overthink intensely. I guarantee that no writer of series TV put the thought into the episode that the Fans did after.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

IMHO, Trek is currently in the best position it's been in years.

It can be more diverse, it can do unimaginable things thanks to EFX, and the storytelling potential is truly unlimited. And there's no longer any network interference, which is always a plus!

Plus it doesn't hurt that it has access to some of the best actors in the biz. People who truly enjoy what they're doing.

So yeah, I see no reason to think anything other than LET'S FUCKING DO THIS!

 

[Captain_Nick]

There's no such thing as overthinking.

 

[fireproof78]

Fans overthink. Intense fans overthink intensely. I guarantee that no writer of series TV put the thought into the episode that the Fans did after.

They don't have the time.

 

[tesral]

They don't have the time.

That is the reason, but the effect is not nearly the thinking. Get this done, NEXT THING! Watching people twist into pretzels over some minor issue of costuming or character of the week has amusement value, but I've seen people literally go down the road of Madness. It's Just a Show.

There's no such thing as overthinking.

That Way Lies Madness.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

They don't have the time.

What was I saying?

 

[JirinPanthosa]

What we have now is *way* more than I ever expected to get from Trek again circa 2009.

When Discovery was announced I expected a 4/10 and I got a 8/10, then exponentially more Trek got announced and none of it fell below 7/10. Star Trek is in a better place than it's been since the 90s.

 

[Captain_Nick]

^ Agreed, I thought Trek was dead post-Enterprise. Now I just wish it was.

That Way Lies Madness.

Madness isn't real.

 

[fireproof78]

Agreed, I thought Trek was dead post-Enterprise. Now I just wish it was.

You wish it was dead?

Why?

 

[kkt]

These are my standard metrics. I ignore everything else:

On the television end: Are the ramping up the number of Star Trek productions or ramping down? If they're ramping up, they're doing fine. If they're ramping down, they're not. It's that simple. So, on TV, I think things are fine. That's the bottom line, whether some people like it or not.

On the film end: Are films coming out frequently or infrequently? From 1979 to 1998, they came out frequently. After 1998, not so much. The Abrams Films put Star Trek back on the map, got the ball rolling again, and were successful enough that we got a trilogy. But, if they were a mega success, we'd be waiting on a sixth film of the reboot by now.

Everything else is just spin.

So it's just quantity for you? It doesn't matter how good they are, whether they tell a compelling story, with interesting characters, maybe something that makes you think a bit, good lines, well-acted, good special effects, etc.?

What is your opinion about Star Trek not being as popular with the mainstream as Star Wars? Why is it not as popular?

It never has been.

It was before 1977.

 

[fireproof78]

It was before 1977.

So popular it was almost cancelled.

 

[tesral]

So popular it was almost cancelled.

So popular it was canceled, for TOS. Trek at its best is risk taking TV to think about, and that is not particularly popular.

 

[fireproof78]

So popular it was canceled, for TOS. Trek at its best is risk taking TV to think about, and that is not particularly popular.

Yes, the poster was referring to before SW. Which, honestly, I don't know if Trek ever commanded that much, but the fan letter campaign and Roddneberry's spin helped it feel like a much bigger deal than it was. Not that I mind-TOS will always be Trek to me, with DS9 and DSC being the closest in terms of exploring themes, but nothing compared to TOS.

But, I also analyze everything. Occupational hazard.

 

[Lord Garth]

So it's just quantity for you? It doesn't matter how good they are, whether they tell a compelling story, with interesting characters, maybe something that makes you think a bit, good lines, well-acted, good special effects, etc.?

You misinterpreted what I said. If you've read my posts at all, you know this. I'm mentally deleting the swears from my post as I type this, just so you know.

I was talking about the success level of the franchise. Which has nothing to do with my opinion. I can think it's great and it's doing badly. I could think it sucks and it could be doing great. What I think of it doesn't have any impact on how it's doing overall.

The bottom-line results I'm talking about (continuing/expanding vs. ending/contracting) work all the way through the entire history of the franchise, if you look at Star Trek from 1966 to 2021. Regardless of anyone's opinion about the actual quality.

TV Trek in 2005 couldn't survive on UPN whereas TV Trek in 2021 can survive on Paramount+. We used to get Trek movies every two or three years without fail until 1998, but it's been spotty ever since then and not as high of a priority to the studio as it used to be. My opinion on those shows or movies doesn't change any of these facts.

But, if you're interested in where I stand:

Old Trek
TOS --> Like (including the third season, where I got my username from).
TAS --> I like it for what it is.
TOS Films --> I like all of them (including TMP and TFF).
TNG --> Mixed, but I like it on balance.
TNG Films --> First Contact is the only one I can recommend.
DS9 --> Like, but I've seen it gradually go from underrated to overrated.
VOY --> Mixed, it had its ups and downs. Sometimes way up, sometimes way down.
ENT --> Didn't like it at the time. Don't dislike it now, but it's still my least favorite Trek series.

New Trek
Kelvin Films --> Liked the first and third ones for what they are, didn't like the second one.
DSC --> Like (and am a huge fan of).
PIC --> Like (and am also a huge fan of).
LD --> I like it well enough.

So my opinion hasn't always matched how well Star Trek has (or hasn't) done.

 

[Orphalesion]

Trek at its best is risk taking TV to think about, and that is not particularly popular.

I disagree with that. Trek was never very "risk taking". They liked to pretend and claim it was, but it was playing it very, very safe.
And to "think about"...really? Which episodes are particularly cerebral or intellectual?

 

[The Wormhole]

Trek at its best is risk taking TV to think about,

Bah? TOS never really took risks, contrary to popular belief. Even the much lauded inclusion of non-white people wasn't really all that unusual in the 1960s for characters in supporting roles, which is what Uhura and Sulu were.

And "to think about?" TOS was an action show. Period. That was literally spelled out by the Divine Hand of Gene Himself in the show's writer's guide.

 

[fireproof78]

Bah? TOS never really took risks, contrary to popular belief. Even the much lauded inclusion of non-white people wasn't really all that unusual in the 1960s for characters in supporting roles, which is what Uhura and Sulu were.

And "to think about?" TOS was an action show. Period. That was literally spelled out by the Divine Hand of Gene Himself in the show's writer's guide.

Star Trek definitely has built up its own mythos about it's self-importance in the larger pop culture sphere. It's a rather fascinating phenomenon to observe happening.

 

[Orphalesion]

It's not just TOS that fails to live up to the "it took risks" and "it was cerebral" hype. TNG played it incredibly safe. If it had taken risks either Picard or Riker would have been non-Caucasian, the women wouldn't all have been relegated to caregivers and there would have been a gay character.
DS9 was, maybe, the "bravest" show, but even they failed to make Garak and Bashir a couple or exploit the treasure trove of stories relating to gender identity and sexuality they would have had with Dax. If they had been "risk taking" the second Dex would have been male while still in love with Worf.