Poll Is Rey a Mary Sue?

[ScottJ85]

Luke who after having flown the equivalent of a Piper Cub (Incom T-16) is suddenly able to fly an F-16 (Incom T-65 X-Wing) just like that.

The usual counterargument to this is that somewhere in the EU it's mentioned that the T-16 and T-65 X-Wing have similar controls, which is of course not mentioned anywhere on screen at all.

Rey might not be a Mary Sue, but clearly Peter David is an idiot.

Or maybe he's just ignoring the prequels which bump the total count to... let's see... four.

 

[Smellmet]

I'm not sure about that. Daniel Graig's is a quite fallible one, and George Lazenby depicted a vulnerable James Bond.

Yeah fair enough, but definitely, Connery, Moore and especially Brosnan.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

None of this was in the movie.

It was all in the movie, either stated or shown directly or inferred from other information or events.

I'm sorry you fell asleep or needed things spelled out for you in large glowing flashing text, but it was in there.

Nor was it ever implied that Rey flew ships, or she may have got off the shit hole planet.

Finn: "We need a pilot!"
Rey: "We've got one!"
(Rey proceeds to fly the Falcon)

Rey knew the performance characteristics and repair/flight status of the Quadrunner and the Falcon among others, and was able to fly them, or would have been if the Quadrunner hadn't been blown up.

The Falcon was a ship with no activity and was just a wreck.

It's a recurring gag in the SW films for people to declare the Falcon a hunk of junk or garbage and then have it still perform amazing maneuvers. That's all that that was referencing.

She flies it expertly, pulls off some amazing maneuvers and doesn't she later on in the movie show up Han? Mary Sue 101.

Still not what Mary Sue means.

Luke didn't even know what the fuck was going on in the cockpit of the ship and Han scolded him for it.

And yet he hopped in the turret and took out just as many TIE Fighters as Han did.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Almost every male action hero? I re-watched recently Commando and the protagonist is an infallible and unstoppable killing machine, but I clearly remember at the time no one complained that Schwarzenegger's character was too much overpowered or unrealistically awesome. He was the personification of every male dreams and everybody was ok with that.

But now there are badass female action heroes, and the frail male ego of too much people is exploding.

It's clear by now (I mean, it already was, but it keeps getting clearer and clearer), that the issue of sex cannot be emphasized enough. Great example, and a really telling one, frankly.

 

[Phily B]

It's clear by now (I mean, it already was, but it keeps getting clearer and clearer), that the issue of sex cannot be emphasized enough. Great example, and a really telling one, frankly.

You are both completely wrong. Rey is an insert into an existing universe, a character who does no wrong and is loved by all these established characters after a day or two interaction with them.

If she was her own movie? Fine. Go for it. Honestly, do you even know the basics of Mary Sue? Wesley Crusher was the same shit, except he doesn't have white knights. Imagine a guy turning up in Annhilation or Ghostbusters 2016 and was just perfect at everything and everyone loved him. That's Rey.

I always see this "what about (x)" and pointing to an original movie. You're allowed power fantasy movies, no one is stopping you.

Rey knew the performance characteristics and repair/flight status of the Quadrunner and the Falcon among others, and was able to fly them, or would have been if the Quadrunner hadn't been blown up.

She wasn't able to "just fly" the Falcon, haha. It was her first time and she performed maneuvers never before seen and took out several dozen TIE Fighters. If she was around in ANH, there never would have been any issues because she could have just lined everything up perfectly.

Her unmatched technical ability, unmatched flying ability are all on top of her amazing personality that has Han and Leia sucking her off and treating her like a daughter (after a day of knowing her). ALL OF THIS ON TOP OF HER AMAZING FORCE ABILITIES AFTER NOT EVEN KNOWING IT EXISTED A WEEK BEFORE! Her character is ridiculous and the cherry on top of a bad few movies.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

She wasn't able to "just fly" the Falcon, haha. It was her first time and she performed maneuvers never before seen and took out several dozen TIE Fighters.

Rey took out several dozen TIE fighters the first time she flew the Falcon? I don't remember that....

You must have seen a different movie from the one I saw.

 

[Campe]

You ever have questions, go to the video tape...

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There are two... exactly TWO TIE Fighters in that scene. Her flight is pretty awkward, hitting a bunch of stuff including skidding the sand several times. (Admittedly, the way the filmmakers treat the Falcon in this one as it skids across dirt and rock with barely a scratch DOES bother me. But Han does this as much as Rey.) The time in the SSD is extremely brief about 20 seconds and the area she is in is fairly wide. Does she do it? Yeah. But she struggles the whole time.

 

[BillJ]

You ever have questions, go to the video tape...

Video tape can be altered, I knew what I saw!



There are times I wonder if some of these folks have actually seen the movie.

 

[Campe]

Video tape can be altered, I knew what I saw!

Yup. Totally edited out 10 TIEs and removed all the dialogue about how amazing Rey thought of herself!

 

[ScottJ85]

has Han and Leia sucking her off

These porn parodies are just getting weird.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Yup. Totally edited out 10 TIEs and removed all the dialogue about how amazing Rey thought of herself!

Um, you mean 22+ TIEs.... It was several dozen!

 

[CorporalCaptain]

You are both completely wrong. Rey is an insert into an existing universe, a character who does no wrong and is loved by all these established characters after a day or two interaction with them.

Um:

It was inevitable that there would have been a next generation Force user among the good guys were the Star Wars saga to continue. As the original characters age out, and the actors *gasp* die, it's inevitable. The PT was set a generation before the OT, and the ST is set a generation afterwards. It's not at all unreasonable for there to be new characters. It's both expected and necessary, or else it cannot continue.

That's what continuation is all about.

I'm just not convinced that we'd hear all this hysteria if the new character had been male. Nope, I'm not convinced at all.

 

[fireproof78]

I'm just not convinced that we'd hear all this hysteria if the new character had been male. Nope, I'm not convinced at all.

Pretty sure you're right

 

[Skipper]

All the incarnations of 007 fall into this category.

I've just watched this video. Now I'm feeling a little uncomfortable.

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[Smellmet]

I've just watched this video. Now I'm feeling a little uncomfortable.

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It's shocking how rapey Connery was in his films, but the worst part of that video is it omitted all the scenes where Bond actually hits women.

 

[fireproof78]

She wasn't able to "just fly" the Falcon, haha. It was her first time and she performed maneuvers never before seen and took out several dozen TIE Fighters. If she was around in ANH, there never would have been any issues because she could have just lined everything up perfectly.

Her unmatched technical ability, unmatched flying ability are all on top of her amazing personality that has Han and Leia sucking her off and treating her like a daughter (after a day of knowing her). ALL OF THIS ON TOP OF HER AMAZING FORCE ABILITIES AFTER NOT EVEN KNOWING IT EXISTED A WEEK BEFORE! Her character is ridiculous and the cherry on top of a bad few movies.

Incorrect pretty much on all counts and the over the top hyperbole pretty much makes the arguments even more weak.

As noted, she blasted two fighters, and largely set up Finn to take the shots. And, yeah, it wasn't perfect.

Her technical ability isn't unmatched, any more than her flying ability. She has demonstrated knowledge of the technical ins and outs of starships because of her environment. By comparison, Luke being a combat capable pilot is more of a stretch, since he isn't demonstrated to be trying to survive day to day. Rey's skills match her environment.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Almost every male action hero? I re-watched recently Commando and the protagonist is an infallible and unstoppable killing machine, but I clearly remember at the time no one complained that Schwarzenegger's character was too much overpowered or unrealistically awesome. He was the personification of every male dreams and everybody was ok with that.

But now there are badass female action heroes, and the frail male ego of too much people is exploding.

Just another Arnie Sue.

 

[Ithekro]

The musical queue when they start running towards the Falcon was probably the first big cheer in the theater for the film.

 

[Tuskin38]

I don't understand why you people are even bothering.

 

[Smellmet]

The musical queue when they start running towards the Falcon was probably the first big cheer in the theater for the film.

I liked that bit on first viewing.