Is Professor Moriarty "dead?"

[Vanyel]

When we last saw Moriarty he was headed off to Meles II with the Countess Regina Bartholomew. But that was a way to trap him within a holographic program and allow Picard, Data and Barclay to leave the Holodeck. As I remember it was either said or implied that they would live out their lives in that hologram.

But Enterprise was destroyed.

So do you think that the independent computer, that ran the holographic program of the Professor and Countess survived the crash of Enterprise's saucer?

My own opinion is that if the computer that held the program was on the saucer it would have become too damaged to keep the program running and the Professor and Countess are now "dead." If it was on the star drive section then there is no doubt that they are "dead."

So are they dead or not. Vote now.

PS. Please no reference to books on this matter, disregard them. Do you, by seeing the damage done to Enterprise, think they survived.

 

[Biffette]

I think Barclay either salvaged it or had it in his quarters. It looked pretty durable to me.

 

[Brikar99]

Probably on a shelf somewhere at the Daystrom Institute...

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Perhaps the lifetime that Moriarty and the Countess lived, only took a few seconds of 'real' time. (Kind of like in the Tron films, where time passes much faster on the 'Grid' than in real life.) Thus, by the time the episode was over, they had already lived full lives and died normally.

Meaning: From their own POV, they lived for decades, but in the real world, it was all over in seconds.

On the other hand, if time passes at the same rate inside the holo-cube as in the real world, I'm sure it was salvaged and put away for safekeeping.

 

[Vanyel]

Probably on a shelf somewhere at the Daystrom Institute...

I like that idea, though I still think they're "dead."

 

[F. King Daniel]

Spot, made of weak flesh, organs and fur, survived the crash, so I imagine a box made of space-metal would have, too.

 

[7thsealord]

... Which would, I daresay, have plenty of shielding and, more than likely, a built-in power source for safe transportation and in case of malfunction, etc...

They were probably the safest people there - IF they were still on Enterprise-D. Seems reasonable that they might have wound up at the Daystrom Institute or similar place instead. Just leaving that module stored somewhere onboard (for someone without clue to eventually access or otherwise mess with) seems like a bad idea.

 

[Admiral Shran]

I doubt the cube was left on the Enterprise. It contains a truly groundbreaking piece of technology - sentient holograms. To just leave it sitting in a storage locker on the Enterprise would be sheer lunacy, IMO. I prefer to think it was taken somewhere safe where scientists could study it in depth without interrupting Moriarty and the Countess' life.

 

[Doug Otte]

I voted "no" because I don't think they ever were alive. True, our heroes in the episode thought they were, but in my opinion:
1) they were based upon fictional characters;
2) they never existed as organic life (that is, they were never born, grew, ate, defecated, reproduced, grew old, etc.).

Doug

 

[Dr. Crusher]

This is an interesting topic. I am going to go with the simpler theory here--if the Enterprise-D was destroyed, so was the cube with the program with Moriarty and the Countess.

 

[horatio83]

I voted "no" because I don't think they ever were alive. True, our heroes in the episode thought they were, but in my opinion:
1) they were based upon fictional characters;
2) they never existed as organic life (that is, they were never born, grew, ate, defecated, reproduced, grew old, etc.).

Doug

Neither have Data and the Doctor and they are still sentient lifeforms who have, respectively should have, all the rights of organic lifeforms.
Take a look at the universe, the whole is always more than the sum of its parts. A proton are not merely three quarks, it is the funky, wobbly binding energy between them. A chemical element is more than the number of its protons, neutrons, electrons and so on, it becomes something totally new once you add a proton and electron. Take a look at organic matter, stupid molecules combine to DNA and out of nowhere life is created. Take a look at DNA, we might have more than 90% of our code in common with a dog but we are nonetheless very different.
This funky extra that makes the whole more than the sum of its parts make stupid organic molecules create something like consciousness. Same in the case of an android or hologram, you cannot point your finger on it but there is a funky extra which has nothing to do with their "hardware" that makes them alive.

 

[Kelthaz]

Neither have Data and the Doctor and they are still sentient lifeforms who have, respectively should have, all the rights of organic lifeforms.

Or are they? I've never bought either of them as being alive and sentient -- just walking toasters that the crew became attached to for sentiment reasons.

Of course, to answer the question as to whether or not the holograms are still running, I'm going to go with no. Given the immense energy requirements of running a holodeck, I doubt a portable Holocube would last longer than my DS. I'm sure someone just forgot to plug the charger in before they went to bed and Moriarty died long before Generations. Or maybe they got a BSOD. No program can run independently without error for years.

 

[horatio83]

Then watch "Measure of a Man".
So what, they are walking toasters and we are walking compost piles. As I tried to point out, the whole is more than the sum of its parts, we cannot locate our consciousness in our organic hardware.

 

[Kelthaz]

Then watch "Measure of a Man".
So what, they are walking toasters and we are walking compost piles. As I tried to point out, the whole is more than the sum of its parts, we cannot locate our consciousness in our organic hardware.

So watch "Measure of a Man" for the definition answer where StarFleet rules "I don't know?" That episode will convince me?

 

[spockrocks]

Doug,
Perhaps not living in the sense that we know it, but still existing.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Maybe Felix got ahold of them.

 

[horatio83]

Then watch "Measure of a Man".
So what, they are walking toasters and we are walking compost piles. As I tried to point out, the whole is more than the sum of its parts, we cannot locate our consciousness in our organic hardware.

So watch "Measure of a Man" for the definition answer where StarFleet rules "I don't know?" That episode will convince me?

Yep, it neatly shows that one potential definition of life has nothing at all to do with organic matter.
If this episode does not do the trick perhaps "Devil in the Dark", "Tholian Web" or any other episodes that features non-organic (is this the right term or do I have to say life not based on carbon?) life will.

 

[Kelthaz]

Yes, I believe that artificial life is a real possibility even in the real world, but that doesn't mean Data is alive.

Artificial Life can be sentient.
Data is an artificial lifeform.
Therefore Data is sentient.

You're trying to argue that because one non-organic lifeform is sentient, that means all non-organic lifeforms are sentient. That isn't true.

 

[Skellington]

Alive. As sentient beings they would have civil rights, including the right to not have their fates tied to that of a starship they never elected to board. The program of which they are a part is probably running on a planet somewhere; or the illusion was ended on legal or humanist grounds and they were made aware of their status.

 

[horatio83]

Yes, I believe that artificial life is a real possibility even in the real world, but that doesn't mean Data is alive.

Artificial Life can be sentient.
Data is an artificial lifeform.
Therefore Data is sentient.

You're trying to argue that because one non-organic lifeform is sentient, that means all non-organic lifeforms are sentient. That isn't true.

Nope, I did not generalize like this, I merely said that Data, the Horta and Tholians are alive, that a carbon-centric view totally misses that life is not about the hardware. Take the Cartesian condition of subjectivity, I think therefore I am. It has nothing to do with whether a fellow is based on carbon, silicon or positronic circuitry.

If Data is just a stupid robot, why does he "feel" friendship even without his emotion chip, why does he sometimes disobey orders, why does he die because he sacrifices himself for his friends?