Re: Is Picard responsible for the Borg's success against the Federatio
Unless your ass is saved by a deus ex machine.
Unless your ass is saved by a deus ex machine.
Is Picard responsible for the Borg's success against the Federation?
- Thread starter HigHurtenflurst
- Start date
Re: Is Picard responsible for the Borg's success against the Federatio
The borg are kind of a deus ex machina though, literally.
The borg are kind of a deus ex machina though, literally.
Re: Is Picard responsible for the Borg's success against the Federatio
Technology levels....I have looked at a number of scales for tech levels. I found the Richter Scale. I noticed that the Breen and the Borg are listed, so I think this is a scale adjusted to the 24th century.
The Federation's tech level seems to correspond to the letter "N", a Technocracy Age.
I suspect that the Dominion would be listed as "O", Techno-power Age.
Iconia and the Borg are listed as "P", Super-techno Power Age.
Technology levels....I have looked at a number of scales for tech levels. I found the Richter Scale. I noticed that the Breen and the Borg are listed, so I think this is a scale adjusted to the 24th century.
The Federation's tech level seems to correspond to the letter "N", a Technocracy Age.
I suspect that the Dominion would be listed as "O", Techno-power Age.
Iconia and the Borg are listed as "P", Super-techno Power Age.
Re: Is Picard responsible for the Borg's success against the Federatio
I believe Richter Scale is about Earthquakes.
I believe Richter Scale is about Earthquakes.
Re: Is Picard responsible for the Borg's success against the Federatio
It's curious. A good number of starbases and outposts along the neutral zone, on both sides, were destroyed according to the episode. I'd assume more than a few shots were directed at the Borg vessel that destroyed them, and judging by how swift the drones themselves adapt, I'd say their ships would equally be capable of overcoming an opponents weapons in short order.
It's curious. A good number of starbases and outposts along the neutral zone, on both sides, were destroyed according to the episode. I'd assume more than a few shots were directed at the Borg vessel that destroyed them, and judging by how swift the drones themselves adapt, I'd say their ships would equally be capable of overcoming an opponents weapons in short order.
Re: Is Picard responsible for the Borg's success against the Federatio
I forgot to mention that one should click on "search for this page title".
Came across an analogy that could be applied to the Dominion War.
Actually, its from description of the Earth/Minbari War in Babylon 5. Earthlings/humans were compared to Aztecs, and the Minbari were compared to Spanish conquistadors. The Spaniards had the technological edge, with steel swords and firearms (and horses!). The Aztecs, with their limited contact with outsiders, didn't have a clue regarding Europeans.
Right, so compare the Federation to Aztecs, and the Dominion to the conquistadors.
I forgot to mention that one should click on "search for this page title".
Came across an analogy that could be applied to the Dominion War.
Actually, its from description of the Earth/Minbari War in Babylon 5. Earthlings/humans were compared to Aztecs, and the Minbari were compared to Spanish conquistadors. The Spaniards had the technological edge, with steel swords and firearms (and horses!). The Aztecs, with their limited contact with outsiders, didn't have a clue regarding Europeans.
Right, so compare the Federation to Aztecs, and the Dominion to the conquistadors.
Re: Is Picard responsible for the Borg's success against the Federatio
If the encounter had turned out to be a misunderstanding, the Borg were actually a reasonable bunch and Q was testing Picard, destroying the cube would have been the murder of thousands of crew on a crippled ship!
As Sisko points out in DS9, Starfleet has principles and Starfleet officers and crew accept they may have to die for those when they sign up. I doubt many Starfleet Captains would have finished off the Borg ship in those circumstances.
If the encounter had turned out to be a misunderstanding, the Borg were actually a reasonable bunch and Q was testing Picard, destroying the cube would have been the murder of thousands of crew on a crippled ship!
As Sisko points out in DS9, Starfleet has principles and Starfleet officers and crew accept they may have to die for those when they sign up. I doubt many Starfleet Captains would have finished off the Borg ship in those circumstances.
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Re: Is Picard responsible for the Borg's success against the Federatio
True, just because you are part man, part machine doesn't mean that you're unreasonable.
True, just because you are part man, part machine doesn't mean that you're unreasonable.
Re: Is Picard responsible for the Borg's success against the Federatio
As for the Borg being one tech level beyond the Dominion....
A determined assault against the Federation by the Borg would be a case of...Bambi meets Godzilla.
As for the Borg being one tech level beyond the Dominion....
A determined assault against the Federation by the Borg would be a case of...Bambi meets Godzilla.
Re: Is Picard responsible for the Borg's success against the Federatio
You forget about the inevitable deus ex machina in such situations.
You forget about the inevitable deus ex machina in such situations.
Re: Is Picard responsible for the Borg's success against the Federatio
Actually, in the novels, a Borg punitive raid ravaged the Federation. I think it was the Borg equivalent of a spanking.
Actually, in the novels, a Borg punitive raid ravaged the Federation. I think it was the Borg equivalent of a spanking.
Re: Is Picard responsible for the Borg's success against the Federatio
You may recall when Picard met Q at "Farpoint" it was his decision to NOT fire and not destroy that was the correct answer. He was probably conditioned that "Q" set him up with a solveable puzzle. Certainly that was the typical answer. Only in the Mirror Universe do they shoot first and ask questions later.
That being said -while we don't know what would have happened if Picard had listened to Guinan / Q and just kept shooting, it likely would have done more damage (at least) and perhaps let the Enterprise get away by running. I personally find it hard to believe the Borg would be destroyed - i'd think they could put up a shield even if 75% damaged - but it might wound the Borg enough to start the two year ride home.
However, putting 10 photon torpedoes on the cube on a "dead man" switch during the first visit would be prudent!
You may recall when Picard met Q at "Farpoint" it was his decision to NOT fire and not destroy that was the correct answer. He was probably conditioned that "Q" set him up with a solveable puzzle. Certainly that was the typical answer. Only in the Mirror Universe do they shoot first and ask questions later.
That being said -while we don't know what would have happened if Picard had listened to Guinan / Q and just kept shooting, it likely would have done more damage (at least) and perhaps let the Enterprise get away by running. I personally find it hard to believe the Borg would be destroyed - i'd think they could put up a shield even if 75% damaged - but it might wound the Borg enough to start the two year ride home.
However, putting 10 photon torpedoes on the cube on a "dead man" switch during the first visit would be prudent!
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Re: Is Picard responsible for the Borg's success against the Federatio
That's really too bad they never did a TNG mirror universe episode. It would have been interesting to see how different MU-Picard would have been from the regular one, not to mention Data, Geordi, Deanna and Beverly. We already know that mirror O'brien is practically unchanged and so far that seems to be the only one.
That's really too bad they never did a TNG mirror universe episode. It would have been interesting to see how different MU-Picard would have been from the regular one, not to mention Data, Geordi, Deanna and Beverly. We already know that mirror O'brien is practically unchanged and so far that seems to be the only one.
Re: Is Picard responsible for the Borg's success against the Federatio
Even if they had gotten away sooner, the Borg still would have had records of the encounter. So they'd still have a pretty good grasp of the Federation's military and technological capabilities, and could easily find their way to Earth. So I don't think that it ultimately would have changed much.
Even if they had gotten away sooner, the Borg still would have had records of the encounter. So they'd still have a pretty good grasp of the Federation's military and technological capabilities, and could easily find their way to Earth. So I don't think that it ultimately would have changed much.
Re: Is Picard responsible for the Borg's success against the Federatio
it's really hard to know how good record-keepers the borg really are. For instance how much does the collective know about the final battle when Data with the help of Picard put the ship to sleep. Which really was the only way they could have won that time.
it's really hard to know how good record-keepers the borg really are. For instance how much does the collective know about the final battle when Data with the help of Picard put the ship to sleep. Which really was the only way they could have won that time.
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