Is Moffat's retroness hurting the show?
- Thread starter Doctorwhovian
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The Daleks have definitely become tired and played out as a villain, but they're iconic and the kids still love seeing them, so I guess we'll just have to keep putting up with them.
Meanwhile I still don't the Cybermen have been done proper justice on the new show. Neither of the versions we've seen so far have even approached the creepiness of the original 60s versions, and it's starting to become annoying. They should have been given the same kind of creepy, frightening presence that the Silence had, instead of being made just a bunch of dumb stompy robots.
Meanwhile I still don't the Cybermen have been done proper justice on the new show. Neither of the versions we've seen so far have even approached the creepiness of the original 60s versions, and it's starting to become annoying. They should have been given the same kind of creepy, frightening presence that the Silence had, instead of being made just a bunch of dumb stompy robots.
To be honest (and although I personally love Rise of the Cybermen/The Age of Steel), there haven't been many good Cybermen episodes since "The Invasion".
I thought Earthshock was a good Cybermen story, although a tad overrated, and Attack of the Cybermen a so-so effort in and of itself. But since then, absolutely... although BF have managed to maintain some quality on that regard.
Well, my favorite Cybermen episode is Attack of the Cybermen, so I probably have no right to judge how well they work in NuWho 
I think the only Cybermen story that I've seen and outright hated (from either old or NuWho) was Nightmare in Silver. Honestly, though, it wasn't the Cybermen's fault. The episode sucked because of the horrible idea to include pretty bad child characters/actors, along with the stupid concept of basically assimilating The Doctor. Besides that, at worst I've seen some mediocre Cybermen stories.
As for the type of Cybermen, I'd like a new design at some point. Maybe something between the current design and the later Old Who designs, although I'm not quite sure what that would look like.
I think the only Cybermen story that I've seen and outright hated (from either old or NuWho) was Nightmare in Silver. Honestly, though, it wasn't the Cybermen's fault. The episode sucked because of the horrible idea to include pretty bad child characters/actors, along with the stupid concept of basically assimilating The Doctor. Besides that, at worst I've seen some mediocre Cybermen stories.As for the type of Cybermen, I'd like a new design at some point. Maybe something between the current design and the later Old Who designs, although I'm not quite sure what that would look like.
More's the pity, but I suppose it's unavoidable at this point.
Thank you - I thought I was about the only person who finds the New Who Cybermen about as intimidating and creepy (and interesting) as a grain of sand. The lockstep marching drone thing is just pathetic. The original Cybermen may have looked (to some) silly but they were genuinely creepy. The new ones are just flat-out dull.
Moffat hasn't overused the Daleks or Cybermen nearly as much as RTD did
Counting two-parters as one story, RTD used the Daleks 6 times, and the Cybermen 3 times. Moffat has used the Daleks 7 times and the Cybermen 5 times, though it will be 6 times by the end of the season.
If you need a run down:
RTD Dalek Episodes:
Dalek
Bad Wolf/Parting of the Ways
Army of Ghosts/Doomsday
Daleks in Manhattan/Evolution of the Daleks
The Stolen Earth/Journey's End
The Waters of Mars
RTD Cybermen Episodes:
Rise of the Cybermen/Age of Steele
Army of Ghosts/Doomsday
The Next Doctor
Moffat Dalek episodes:
Victory of the Daleks
The Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang
The Wedding of River Song
Asylum of the Daleks
Day of the Doctor
Time of the Doctor
Into the Dalek
Moffat Cybermen Episodes:
The Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang
A Good Man Goes to War
Closing Time
A Nightmare in Silver
Time of the Doctor
And the upcoming Dark Water/Death in Heaven
That doesn’t quite tell the whole story though. Aside from Waters of Mars whenever RTD used Daleks or Cybermen they were used heavily within that story, they were either the main threat or they were the co-main threat. By contrast Moffat has probably used them more often as a peripheral aspect of a story. Cybermen aren’t even in Big Bang, and they only show up briefly at the start of the A Good Man Goes to War to give someone for Rory to threaten. Even in Time of the Doctor they’re not the main threat, just one of many forces trying to take Trenzalore. That said I get the impression Moffat has more time for Cybermen than Daleks. Re the Daleks it would have been hard to do Day of the doctor without them, and bear in mind that in series 6 the only Dalek is a destroyed one that the Doctor rips the eyestalk from.
I know it’s just a conspiracy theory that there’s a contractual obligation to show a Dalek every year, but neither RTD or Moffat have chosen to disprove this by actually having a completely fallow year.
I know it’s just a conspiracy theory that there’s a contractual obligation to show a Dalek every year, but neither RTD or Moffat have chosen to disprove this by actually having a completely fallow year.
While those of us who discuss DW on boards like this may lament an over-use of the Daleks or Cybermen, I think that Joe Public who turns in to enjoy 45 mins of the show on a Saturday evening will largely be disappointed if they don't turn up at least once a season.
True, but they were used in all the trailers for the episode, so it was essentially promoted as "Cybermen! In this episode!"
It's especially hard to disprove with Waters of Mars and Wedding of River Song being the only episodes in their respective years to feature Daleks, and then in minor scenes which serve no real importance to the plot.
Yep, the "Not We" consider Doctor Who to be about the Daleks and expect them to show up at some point in the season. The only real reason the classic era went long stretches without Daleks had more to do with Terry Nation being a bitch than it did any kind of "waiting for the right story to tell."
Louis Marks and David Whitaker also wrote Dalek stories while Terry Nation was still alive, so really it was a matter whomever in charge wanting to bring them back. the same is really true about the Cybermen, there were no Cybermen in the Pertwee era simple because they couldn't come up with any. Personally I think Daleks and Cybermen should be used for the bigger epic stories and really have been wasted under Moffat. I liked RTD's Dalek stories for just that reason, mind you the ones he penned himself, I don't tihnk Raynor's story was all that bad and of course Dalek was excellent.