Is Jim's older brother not in the AU?

[Franklin]

They didn't have to do much though.
They could just have Jim shout "Hey Sam" instead of "Hey Johny" and that's it.

That's true. It'd make it one of those nods for people who realised that 'Cardassian sunrise' was more than a funny name for a drink.

Yes, but remember the stink the "Cardassian sunrise" made on these boards months before the release. Nothing is just "that's it" to us fans.

In my opinion, you have it right in your first post, Kegg, introducing Jim's brother in this movie complicates things too much. It's probably why the scene between the two boys was cut (or never filmed, I don't remember which).

If the story of Jim's life after the death of his father (and the loss of that positive influence) is so important, then why isn't George's? How the Kirk boys cope without their father and find their destinies would've been a story unto itself. You can't introduce George in those circumstances and then just leave him hanging (at least, not in my opinion). And, that might be a story for fan fic, or a nice TV episode, but it's not a story for the big screen.

Maybe George had run away years ago. Being the older brother, maybe he was away at a bording school. Maybe he traveled with his mother. What is certain is George has apparently become the "Chuck" of the Kirk family (vague Happy Days reference).

 

[Kegg]

Yes, but remember the stink the "Cardassian sunrise" made on these boards months before the release. Nothing is just "that's it" to us fans.

Speak for yourself. I (mostly) avoided spoilers and thus went nuts when Uhura's first name was mentioned on screen, much to the embarrassment of anyone who ever knew me.

 

[SalvorHardin]

They didn't have to do much though.
They could just have Jim shout "Hey Sam" instead of "Hey Johny" and that's it.

That's true. It'd make it one of those nods for people who realised that 'Cardassian sunrise' was more than a funny name for a drink.

Yes, but remember the stink the "Cardassian sunrise" made on these boards months before the release. Nothing is just "that's it" to us fans.

I still remember the outrage over Kirk saying "man" in one of the trailers

 

[BenRoethig]

They can retcon George Jr. back into the story. Maybe his name is George John Kirk. Jimmy should not be an only child!

Or a nickname.

 

[T'Cal]

Maybe Jimmy yelled, "Hey, Junior!" instead of, Hey, Johnny!" I think we heard it wrong.

Having an older brother for Jim could've worked. George Jr. could've joined Starfleet out of spite roward their stepfather and as homage to their father, while Jim might've gone the other route feeling responsible in some immature way that he was responsible for his father's death. Was another storyline necessary? Probably not.

 

[Therin of Andor]

The novelization for STXI is over 8 hours long; that's absurd, especially when the other audio novelizations for GEN, FC, INS, and NEM we're all just under 3 hours each.

Fans have been pestering Simon & Schuster Audioworks to do an unabridged audio for decades. The older, abridged audios no longer sell with the gusto they used to, and there hasn't been one since "Captain's Glory" in 2006. (Most audios sold these days tend to be unabridged. CD technology means the boxes don't have to hold too many bulkier cassettes.)

It makes sense, after such a loooooong gap, that S&S put their faith in this movie to test the waters on an unabridged audio. And now people are saying it should have been abridged?

Maybe Jimmy yelled, "Hey, Junior!" instead of, Hey, Johnny!" I think we heard it wrong.

He'd still be born George Samuel Kirk Jr, but this altered timeline's young Jim Kirk grows up calling him "Johnny" for some reason, rather than "Sam". (You'll remember, in the original timeline, Jim Kirk was said to be the only person to call his brother "Sam".)

In my mother's family, several of the males, across several generations, used to call each other "Joe", even though none of them had that name, or anything like it. In my father's family, my Dad and uncle used to only call each other "Fez", dating back to an old joke between them involving the wearing of an actual fez at a dance.

Nicknames don't require onscreen explanations; they just happen. The explanations are often very underwhelming for the time it takes to explain them. Similarly, we never got an onscreen reason for "Bones" in the old timeline, only in the background material. And the new movie had fun tweaking it.

 

[Sabataage]

This kid was once supposed to be Jim's brother but for reasons I never really understood they changed his name to Johny and didn't go with it.

Just a guess:
Too much information.

The film establishes Spock's parents, Kirk's parents, and then it's got to get a move on and grow them up, bring them out into space and band together the crew of the Enterprise.

Introducing the idea Kirk has a brother is automatically flagging the character as Important!... which he isn't. They didn't have any role for this guy to play in the story, he'd just be kind of there and then gone. However, there's no reason to assume he doesn't exist, he just didn't appear in the movie.

I doubt he'll appear in subsequent films, but hey, you never know. Orci in particular has shown a willingness to pay attention to little character details like that provided he can get them to work in the film he's making (Bones mentions he's divorced, yaaay! Can I have Joanna now?) etc.

(BTW, the film is much better than the novelization. The latter is way too wordy and dragged out. It's as if the characters don't know when to shut up so things become less dramatic quickly.)

To be fair, it's a novelization. They're written to stretch a film out to book length. You keep everything moving at the pace Abrams has and you'll just have a short story.

I could see him appearing once everything else is more established, although it's really not something I've thought about or even considered to be all that important to future stories.

If the character appears at all it should be in the spin-off series and not in the movies. Mind you, not as a poor man's Captain Kirk but maybe as the ships doctor or engineer. The idea being that he was smart enough to join starfleet but lacked the desire or ambition to become a starship captain like his bro. Introducing him in a sequel only to kill him off again, seems pointless. But who knows?

 

[Tom]

Posted this in the Gag thread, there is a deleted scene with him as Kirks brother, here is a pic from the Dvd documentary, A New Vision:

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

If the character appears at all it should be in the spin-off series and not in the movies. Mind you, not as a poor man's Captain Kirk but maybe as the ships doctor or engineer. The idea being that he was smart enough to join starfleet but lacked the desire or ambition to become a starship captain like his bro.

So you're suggesting that the difference in Jim's life also affected Sam, such that Sam would not become the scientist that he was in TOS?

 

[T'Cal]

If we are to believe that the alternate universe began when Nero went back in time, arriving moments before Jim's birth, then older brother George Jr. was already born. I'm so confused!!!

 

[T'Cal]

The novelization for STXI is over 8 hours long; that's absurd, especially when the other audio novelizations for GEN, FC, INS, and NEM we're all just under 3 hours each.

Fans have been pestering Simon & Schuster Audioworks to do an unabridged audio for decades. The older, abridged audios no longer sell with the gusto they used to, and there hasn't been one since "Captain's Glory" in 2006. (Most audios sold these days tend to be unabridged. CD technology means the boxes don't have to hold too many bulkier cassettes.)

It makes sense, after such a loooooong gap, that S&S put their faith in this movie to test the waters on an unabridged audio. And now people are saying it should have been abridged?

I'm a huge fan of the Trek audio novels, especially the ones read by Frakes, DeLancie, and McFadden. Doohan did a few good ones too, but my favorites are Imzadi, Q Squared, Reunion, Crossover, Dark Mirror, and Reunion. GEN was better as an audio novel than as a movie IMO. These three-hour abridged stories were excellent. I always hoped Frakes would be contracted to do the Titan novels.

 

[Therin of Andor]

If we are to believe that the alternate universe began when Nero went back in time, arriving moments before Jim's birth, then older brother George Jr. was already born. I'm so confused!!!

What's so confusing? George Jr still exists, but Jim calls him Johnny rather than Sam.

These three-hour abridged stories were excellent. I always hoped Frakes would be contracted to do the Titan novels.

Sadly, abridged audios have fallen out of favour.

Here's the complete list:
http://therinofandor.blogspot.com/2007/05/i-hear-star-trek-something-ive-often.html

Last July, then-Pocket editor, Margaret Clark, said that Simon & Schuster's new unabridged audio of JJ's movie sold well - and S&S are "interested" in doing more.

 

[Sabataage]

If the character appears at all it should be in the spin-off series and not in the movies. Mind you, not as a poor man's Captain Kirk but maybe as the ships doctor or engineer. The idea being that he was smart enough to join starfleet but lacked the desire or ambition to become a starship captain like his bro.

So you're suggesting that the difference in Jim's life also affected Sam, such that Sam would not become the scientist that he was in TOS?

That was the explicit reason they got rid of him. Orci and Kurtzman explained in an interview that they wanted to focus on Jim and how is life was altered by his dad's death. If they showed Sam then it would be about how the *two* of them were affected. Considering how important a role Sam played in the rest of the film, they said it would just seem like a distracting detour the didn't have time for.

The thought about Sam as a character in the next TV series would just be a way of tying show they develop into Abram's universe. "George Samule Kirk... Kirk? --Hey your Jim Kirk's brother aren't you!?" "(groan) Yes." "Wow you look just like him too --except you have a mustache!" Okay maybe not.

 

[T'Cal]

I'm sorry I'm obsessing about this, but older brother George Jr. had* to have been born if the alternate universe began moments before Jim's birth. That's where the two timelines split off and differ. Perhaps there is a way to explain it for one of the sequels. Having the actor who played George Sr. also play Junior would be way cool. Just give him a facial scar, a new hairdo, and of course a mustache.

*It's canon!!!

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Naw, just get Chris Pine to play George Jr. Nice bit of synergy with the Shat there.

 

[Skywalker]

If the character appears at all it should be in the spin-off series and not in the movies. Mind you, not as a poor man's Captain Kirk but maybe as the ships doctor or engineer. The idea being that he was smart enough to join starfleet but lacked the desire or ambition to become a starship captain like his bro.

So you're suggesting that the difference in Jim's life also affected Sam, such that Sam would not become the scientist that he was in TOS?

That was the explicit reason they got rid of him. Orci and Kurtzman explained in an interview that they wanted to focus on Jim and how is life was altered by his dad's death. If they showed Sam then it would be about how the *two* of them were affected. Considering how important a role Sam played in the rest of the film, they said it would just seem like a distracting detour the didn't have time for.

Kirk shouting "Hey, Sam!" instead of "Hey, Johnny!" would not have changed the story or altered the flow of the movie at all. Fans in the know would have just been like "Cool, there's Sam Kirk!" while audience members not in the know would have just been like "Oh, Kirk has a friend named Sam."

 

[Therin of Andor]

Kirk shouting "Hey, Sam!" instead of "Hey, Johnny!" would not have changed the story or altered the flow of the movie at all. Fans in the know would have just been like "Cool, there's Sam Kirk!" while audience members not in the know would have just been like "Oh, Kirk has a friend named Sam."

I guess they changed it so the fans wouldn't complain but... yeah... the fans complained anyway.

 

[Skywalker]

Yes, we are a fickle bunch.

I'm not exactly ticked off about the dialogue change. I really don't care all that much about Sam Kirk, but it seemed like such a pointless alteration with very thin and unconvincing reasoning. They wouldn't have been obligated to reinsert Sam's scenes if Jim called the hitchhiker "Sam" instead of "Johnny."

 

[Therin of Andor]

if Jim called the hitchhiker "Sam" instead of "Johnny."

Sounded like "Georgie!" to me, knowing the earlier scene had been cut, till I read the credits.

 

[Devon]

Kirk shouting "Hey, Sam!" instead of "Hey, Johnny!" would not have changed the story or altered the flow of the movie at all. Fans in the know would have just been like "Cool, there's Sam Kirk!" while audience members not in the know would have just been like "Oh, Kirk has a friend named Sam."

By the same instance, changing it to Johnny made on difference and didn't alter the change either. It's only because you are aware that it was originally Sam in an earlier cut that makes the difference.

Though, fans in the know would be wondering why George was out hitchhicking and be more interested in that instance than just "Johnny." Thus just leave it vague, leave it to Johnny.