Is Jim's older brother not in the AU?

[T'Cal]

I was listening to the audio novelization of STXI and, like most books, it has more scenes than what made it to the screen. One in particular takes place just before we Jimmy driving away in the classic Corvette.

In the book, the boys' stepfather is planning to sell their father's car and George (Jr.) tells Jimmy that he can't take it anymore and he's setting off on his own. Jimmy decides to take the Vette out for a spin and passes George on the road while the traffic cop is pursuing him. Jimmy calls out to the hitchhiking George

In the film, the young Jimmy calls out from the car to the hitchhiking boy, Johnny, who is never clearly identified beyond that name.

My question is, based on what is on-screen, does Jim have an older brother in the alternate universe? If you think about the scenes on the Kelvin when Capt. George Kirk is on a suicide mission and saying his goodbyes to his wife, he (and his wife) never mention any other children. No, "Take care of the boys," or "You have to get together with Georgie and get somewhere safe!"

Did I miss anything?

(BTW, the film is much better than the novelization. The latter is way too wordy and dragged out. It's as if the characters don't know when to shut up so things become less dramatic quickly.)

 

[SalvorHardin]

This kid was once supposed to be Jim's brother but for reasons I never really understood they changed his name to Johny and didn't go with it.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

They can retcon George Jr. back into the story. Maybe his name is George John Kirk. Jimmy should not be an only child!

 

[Kegg]

This kid was once supposed to be Jim's brother but for reasons I never really understood they changed his name to Johny and didn't go with it.

Just a guess:
Too much information.

The film establishes Spock's parents, Kirk's parents, and then it's got to get a move on and grow them up, bring them out into space and band together the crew of the Enterprise.

Introducing the idea Kirk has a brother is automatically flagging the character as Important!... which he isn't. They didn't have any role for this guy to play in the story, he'd just be kind of there and then gone. However, there's no reason to assume he doesn't exist, he just didn't appear in the movie.

I doubt he'll appear in subsequent films, but hey, you never know. Orci in particular has shown a willingness to pay attention to little character details like that provided he can get them to work in the film he's making (Bones mentions he's divorced, yaaay! Can I have Joanna now?) etc.

(BTW, the film is much better than the novelization. The latter is way too wordy and dragged out. It's as if the characters don't know when to shut up so things become less dramatic quickly.)

To be fair, it's a novelization. They're written to stretch a film out to book length. You keep everything moving at the pace Abrams has and you'll just have a short story.

 

[SalvorHardin]

This kid was once supposed to be Jim's brother but for reasons I never really understood they changed his name to Johny and didn't go with it.

Just a guess:
Too much information.

The film establishes Spock's parents, Kirk's parents, and then it's got to get a move on and grow them up, bring them out into space and band together the crew of the Enterprise.

Introducing the idea Kirk has a brother is automatically flagging the character as Important!... which he isn't. They didn't have any role for this guy to play in the story, he'd just be kind of there and then gone. However, there's no reason to assume he doesn't exist, he just didn't appear in the movie.

They didn't have to do much though.
They could just have Jim shout "Hey Sam" instead of "Hey Johny" and that's it.
Those who cared would understand who he is and the rest would continue watching the movie as if nothing happened.

It's no big deal in any case.

 

[Kegg]

They didn't have to do much though.
They could just have Jim shout "Hey Sam" instead of "Hey Johny" and that's it.

That's true. It'd make it one of those nods for people who realised that 'Cardassian sunrise' was more than a funny name for a drink.

*shrug*

Anyway, yeah, a little nod to Kirk having a brother somewhere down the line wouldn't hurt.

Spoiler: Star Trek XI

And remember, the first movie killed Kirk's parents, killed Spock's mom, and blew up Vulcan. If the next movie wants to be similarly EPIC!, it may also want another large headcount. Offing Kirk's brother - who, let's remember, was created for the sole purpose of being offed on TOS - would be one way to do that.

 

[T'Cal]

(BTW, the film is much better than the novelization. The latter is way too wordy and dragged out. It's as if the characters don't know when to shut up so things become less dramatic quickly.)

To be fair, it's a novelization. They're written to stretch a film out to book length. You keep everything moving at the pace Abrams has and you'll just have a short story.

The novelization for STXI is over 8 hours long; that's absurd, especially when the other audio novelizations for GEN, FC, INS, and NEM we're all just under 3 hours each. And each of those did a satisfactory (or better) job of telling the same story as the movie. In fact, GEN the audio-novel was better than the film. It had additional scenes that gave the story much greater depth than the film did. Also, the dialog in the novel was close if not the same as those depicted on screen. In STXI's unabridged novelization, there is superfluous dialog in almost every scene that the characters speak. Kirk comes across as whiny and annoying opposed instead of smart and witty. When he meets Uhura in the bar, he sounds like an obnoxious drunk as opposed to a flirtatious young stud. When he is recruited by Pike after the barfight, he sounds like as spoiled child rather than a conflicted young man trying unsuccessfully to sound cavalier and indifferent. Probably if the novelization was abridged for audio it would've helped a lot.

 

[Sector 7]

They didn't have to do much though.
They could just have Jim shout "Hey Sam" instead of "Hey Johny" and that's it.

That's true. It'd make it one of those nods for people who realised that 'Cardassian sunrise' was more than a funny name for a drink.

*shrug*

Anyway, yeah, a little nod to Kirk having a brother somewhere down the line wouldn't hurt.

Spoiler: Star Trek XI

And remember, the first movie killed Kirk's parents, killed Spock's mom, and blew up Vulcan. If the next movie wants to be similarly EPIC!, it may also want another large headcount. Offing Kirk's brother - who, let's remember, was created for the sole purpose of being offed on TOS - would be one way to do that.

Although I love the new movie, I was also thinking 'WTF' when he called out the name Johnny.
P.S.-

Spoiler: Spoiler response

They only killed off one of Kirk's parents, his dad. Or did I miss something?

 

[Kegg]

To that:

Spoiler: Star Trek XI

Oh yeah. I meant to say they killed off one of each parent. Drat I'm tired.

 

[T'Girl]

I liked the theory that went around when the movie first came out, that the child who was born on the Kelvin in the prime universe was named George Samual Kirk, James Tiberius Kirk was born years later on Earth. The Jim Kirk in the AU/film doesn't have a older brother at all, he has a younger half brother named Johnny.

 

[Kelso]

I liked the theory that went around when the movie first came out, that the child who was born on the Kelvin in the prime universe was named George Samual Kirk, James Tiberius Kirk was born years later on Earth. The Jim Kirk in the AU/film doesn't have a older brother at all, he has a younger half brother named Johnny.

Well, years later wouldn't work... he would have to have been born later that year (in 2233.)

 

[Jax]

This kid was once supposed to be Jim's brother but for reasons I never really understood they changed his name to Johny and didn't go with it.

You can tell he was meant to be the brother because he looks like Geroge Kirk more than Jim does. Idon't know why J.J just didn't keep him as the brother for that scene.

 

[Skywalker]

Changing George Kirk Jr. to "Johnny" was one of the most pointless alterations in the movie. Having Jim call the hitchhiker "George" or "Georgie" or "Sam" wouldn't have confused anyone; most people wouldn't have even paid the line much heed anyway.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I liked the theory that went around when the movie first came out, that the child who was born on the Kelvin in the prime universe was named George Samual Kirk, James Tiberius Kirk was born years later on Earth. The Jim Kirk in the AU/film doesn't have a older brother at all, he has a younger half brother named Johnny.

George is older than Jim. So George must have already been born by the time ST XI started.

 

[Devon]

Changing George Kirk Jr. to "Johnny" was one of the most pointless alterations in the movie. Having Jim call the hitchhiker "George" or "Georgie" or "Sam" wouldn't have confused anyone; most people wouldn't have even paid the line much heed anyway.

If it didn't matter either way then it isn't a problem keeping with Johnny either.

 

[Skywalker]

It isn't, but why spend the money to have the actor re-record the dialogue for something so miniscule?

 

[T'Girl]

... the child who was born on the Kelvin in the prime universe was named George Samual Kirk ...

George is older than Jim. So George must have already been born by the time ST XI started.

George was the son born during STXI, he recieved Jim's name and Jim was never born.

 

[Skywalker]

... the child who was born on the Kelvin in the prime universe was named George Samual Kirk ...

George is older than Jim. So George must have already been born by the time ST XI started.

George was the son born during STXI, he recieved Jim's name and Jim was never born.

Um...James T. Kirk was born in 2233 in the original universe, so why would the James T. Kirk born in 2233 in the new universe not be the same?

 

[barnaclelapse]

This kid was once supposed to be Jim's brother but for reasons I never really understood they changed his name to Johny and didn't go with it.

Just a guess:
Too much information.

The film establishes Spock's parents, Kirk's parents, and then it's got to get a move on and grow them up, bring them out into space and band together the crew of the Enterprise.

Introducing the idea Kirk has a brother is automatically flagging the character as Important!... which he isn't. They didn't have any role for this guy to play in the story, he'd just be kind of there and then gone. However, there's no reason to assume he doesn't exist, he just didn't appear in the movie.

I doubt he'll appear in subsequent films, but hey, you never know. Orci in particular has shown a willingness to pay attention to little character details like that provided he can get them to work in the film he's making (Bones mentions he's divorced, yaaay! Can I have Joanna now?) etc.

(BTW, the film is much better than the novelization. The latter is way too wordy and dragged out. It's as if the characters don't know when to shut up so things become less dramatic quickly.)

To be fair, it's a novelization. They're written to stretch a film out to book length. You keep everything moving at the pace Abrams has and you'll just have a short story.

I could see him appearing once everything else is more established, although it's really not something I've thought about or even considered to be all that important to future stories.

 

[Peter the Younger]

Changing George Kirk Jr. to "Johnny" was one of the most pointless alterations in the movie. Having Jim call the hitchhiker "George" or "Georgie" or "Sam" wouldn't have confused anyone; most people wouldn't have even paid the line much heed anyway.

Agreed. It was a nice bit of continuity porn, why intentionally change it?