is Jadzia Bi-sexual?

[CommanderRaytas]

I always thought that sexuality itself in Trek isn't so fixed as it still is in our society. Like Kira, who wonders why two people who once loved each other can't be together anymore... she didn't even think about mentioning the fact that both were female. Neither did anyone else. So I don't think it's a question whether Jadzia is bi-sexual or not.... I think that in most advanced societies of the 24th century, sexuality won't be that big on an issue anymore. People will be more flexible.

Like the Doctor told Rose: "So many species, so little time". Who cares about gender in such a scenario? It's all so relative, even on Earth. One example would be the ancient Greeks. It's not like they were all bi. It is simply a matter of perspective.

 

[Kpnuts]

Have to agree with PhoenixIreland, showing two lesbians isn't an issue, it would probably boost ratings. Showing two homosexual males is too much of a risk for them, for whatever pathetic, shameless reason.

 

[loldrey]

I wouldn't classify Jadzia as bisexual, I would classify the Dax symbiont as pansexual. Since Dax has lived many lives as both a man and a woman, and Jadzia experiences all of those memories, she remembers being attracted to women as well as men (and possibly other genders, who knows what species Dax has encountered). Jadzia without Dax probably wouldn't consider being with a woman at all.

 

[JM1776]

The facts are these: For all the propaganda about a true joining, the host's wishes and desires are secondary to that of the symbiont. The former serves at the latter's pleasure—no pun intended.

It's quite possible that it wasn't Jadzia Dax who loved Worf, but rather Dax alone.

Of course, I'd probably not want to be in the room when Worf came to that particular realization.

 

[Timo]

Of course, I'd probably not want to be in the room when Worf came to that particular realization.

Why not? Do you really think it was her mind that Worf was interested in?

That's what I've always felt, too: the slug, the real Trill, is an unequally powerful partner in the joining, not markedly different from the Goa'uld although with slightly more refined social manners. Doesn't mean the host couldn't enjoy the ride, though.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Michael]

Jadzia without Dax probably wouldn't consider being with a woman at all.

Or with a man for that matter.

 

[Keith1701]

We could just as easily ask why we never saw ... or someone marrying a hologram.

That was saved for an aborted future on Voyager.

Very true.....

 

[Irvy]

I've often wondered the stories they could have told if the Dax symbiont had been transferred to a male host after Jadzia's death. Worf would have been just as horrified that Dax had returned to him after he'd secured Jadzia a place in Stovokor, but how would Quark and Julian have reacted?

 

[Iliana]

I always thought that sexuality itself in Trek isn't so fixed as it still is in our society. Like Kira, who wonders why two people who once loved each other can't be together anymore... she didn't even think about mentioning the fact that both were female. Neither did anyone else. So I don't think it's a question whether Jadzia is bi-sexual or not.... I think that in most advanced societies of the 24th century, sexuality won't be that big on an issue anymore. People will be more flexible.

Like the Doctor told Rose: "So many species, so little time". Who cares about gender in such a scenario? It's all so relative, even on Earth. One example would be the ancient Greeks. It's not like they were all bi. It is simply a matter of perspective.

I agree. Historically speaking, the use of labels such as heterosexual and homosexual is rather new. Indeed, sexual identity is not stable but flexible. What a person feels may change during time. Furthermore, its diversity is too wide to be grasped in 3 or 4 categories. People may feel a certain kind of way, act in an other way, and identify with yet a different group.

 

[Eric Cheung]

I've often wondered the stories they could have told if the Dax symbiont had been transferred to a male host after Jadzia's death. Worf would have been just as horrified that Dax had returned to him after he'd secured Jadzia a place in Stovokor, but how would Quark and Julian have reacted?

It would have been interesting but unfortunately it would have left Kira the only female senior officer on the show. Except for Voyager each of the shows only had two female regulars (that's if you include Chapel in TOS, though she wasn't the head of her department).

Regarding Jadzia, as with most joined Trills if you had to chart them on the Kinsey Scale, they're probably all in the middle somewhere. My guess is that the symbionts are generally bisexual and the host may or may not be. Of course it could be something like 10% who identify as heterosexual or asexual, sort of a reverse of the supposed percentage with polled Americans. Bisexuality seems to be preferable to their species for reproduction.

Again this may not be relevant in the 24th century anyway as orientation may not be as fixed as has been said above.

 

[SoM]

Regarding Jadzia, as with most joined Trills if you had to chart them on the Kinsey Scale, they're probably all in the middle somewhere. My guess is that the symbionts are generally bisexual and the host may or may not be. Of course it could be something like 10% who identify as heterosexual or asexual, sort of a reverse of the supposed percentage with polled Americans. Bisexuality seems to be preferable to their species for reproduction.

Well, symbiont sexuality gets complicated - after all, all the SYMBIONT should find attractive is another slug. This also gets back to whether the symbiont is mostly/wholly in control of the host, a strong influence, or merely somebody whispering in the background trying to persuade Ezri she likes raktajino, really.

 

[RobertScorpio]

I've often wondered the stories they could have told if the Dax symbiont had been transferred to a male host after Jadzia's death. Worf would have been just as horrified that Dax had returned to him after he'd secured Jadzia a place in Stovokor, but how would Quark and Julian have reacted?

It would have been interesting but unfortunately it would have left Kira the only female senior officer on the show. Except for Voyager each of the shows only had two female regulars (that's if you include Chapel in TOS, though she wasn't the head of her department).

Regarding Jadzia, as with most joined Trills if you had to chart them on the Kinsey Scale, they're probably all in the middle somewhere. My guess is that the symbionts are generally bisexual and the host may or may not be. Of course it could be something like 10% who identify as heterosexual or asexual, sort of a reverse of the supposed percentage with polled Americans. Bisexuality seems to be preferable to their species for reproduction.

Again this may not be relevant in the 24th century anyway as orientation may not be as fixed as has been said above.

And yet, as I said in another post in GEN-Trek, I think all that I have seen in modern TREk is opressed sexuality since there has never really ever been a gay character in nearly 700 hours of TV TREk. And the only episode on the topic made it seem as if it was best to keep such thoughts in the closet (TNG's episode)..

Rob
scorpio

 

[EEE]

This also gets back to whether the symbiont is mostly/wholly in control of the host, a strong influence, or merely somebody whispering in the background trying to persuade Ezri she likes raktajino, really.

I've come to the personal conclusion that they're little more than biodegradable removable hard drives.

 

[Eric Cheung]

Well, symbiont sexuality gets complicated - after all, all the SYMBIONT should find attractive is another slug. This also gets back to whether the symbiont is mostly/wholly in control of the host, a strong influence, or merely somebody whispering in the background trying to persuade Ezri she likes raktajino, really.

Well, the only way a symbiont would have clues into what another symbiont is like is through the words and actions of its host. The symbiont would have to deduce how much is the symbiont and how much is the host, what kind of relationship the two have with each other (is the symbiont abusive to the host, or the other way around), stuff like that. I imagine the amount of control one has over the other varies.

And I agree with Robert Scorpio that there should have been something more direct in the past 42 years. TOS's raison d'etre was originally a way to get controversial topics discussed, even if it had to be through allegory so it could get past censors. But it would have done well to court some controversy a little more directly by making what's controversial now appear less so in a future where we're united as natives of Earth.

 

[JoeZhang]

This also gets back to whether the symbiont is mostly/wholly in control of the host, a strong influence, or merely somebody whispering in the background trying to persuade Ezri she likes raktajino, really.

I've come to the personal conclusion that they're little more than biodegradable removable hard drives.

That's what my fourth host Bart Zhang said, he thought that...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

sorry nodded off there for a moment, anyway my second host Wang Zhang said that... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

gosh all those stories sure do make people tired.

 

[kissthestar]

Each Trek had its own special powers, and DS9's specials powers include its willingness to explore spirituality to a much greater extent than any other Trek. The Jadzia Dax character is a prime example. Through the Dax character, DS9 considered the ramifications of reincarnation.

 

[Captain Leslie]

I think that sexuality is far more fluid in the proposed future of the star trek franchise. new races, new genders would make polarised sexuality just one option in a universe of possibilities.
Im sure Jadzia didnt even consider wether it was a problem. While her preferences as a Female host may be mostly hetro, that itself may be considered as purely temporary as cross gender implantation of trill memories would mean that the host would 'share' the lives of the previous host regardless of gender or sexual orientation. Reading 'between the lines' in other DS9 screenplays may provide other examples of relationshipsthat the Networks may have tried to sensure if they had been more obvious on the screen.

 

[RobertScorpio]

I think that sexuality is far more fluid in the proposed future of the star trek franchise. new races, new genders would make polarised sexuality just one option in a universe of possibilities.
Im sure Jadzia didnt even consider wether it was a problem. While her preferences as a Female host may be mostly hetro, that itself may be considered as purely temporary as cross gender implantation of trill memories would mean that the host would 'share' the lives of the previous host regardless of gender or sexual orientation. Reading 'between the lines' in other DS9 screenplays may provide other examples of relationshipsthat the Networks may have tried to sensure if they had been more obvious on the screen.

They should have pushed the envelope more with her and her sexuality. For one reason? As a producer? The fanbase is a majority of men, young men, who like girl/girl scenes. Exploit it? Sure, why not.

But by the time DS9 was on sexuality issues, and preferences, were already being explored elsewhere on TV. So they wouldn't be THAT brave in doing their own stories about it.

As I said in the thread where I challenged Trek's so called 'progressive' views on sexuality; I didn't care much for Gene Roddenberry. But the guy had balls. And Berman talked the talk about this issue but never walked the walk. It was all mouth service, no pun intended, to calm down the gay-rights folks who brought this up as an issue in the mid 90s, and my friend who brought it up to me...

Rob

 

[CaptainHawk1]

The show that gave us the first interracial kiss on TV while american cities were being torn apart by race riots...

So, the kiss in "Rejoined," with two women who remembered each other as opposite-sex, was a cop-out, but the kiss in "Plato's Stepchildren," where the white man and the black girl were being mind-controlled by evil space aliens was somehow not a cop-out?

I, too, am sick of the GLBTQ-bashing against Trek. Yes, it's a trailblazing show, but this contingent seems to be expecting something of the show that simply isn't in Star Trek's DNA. Trek is progressive, but has not ever deliberately sought to be a lightning rod of controversy. It's a family TV show, something everyone ages zero and up can gather 'round and watch on Wednesday night. It's Doctor Who, not Torchwood. The people with an agenda need to find another show to foist it on. </rant>

Ding, Ding! Somebody finally gets it. Trek is a family show, no matter what incarnation of it, first and foremost.

There is absolutely nothing for Trek to gain still, to this day by portraying homosexual relationships and don't expect it ever, because it's not going to happen. Like or not, even though society has become far more tolerant of homosexuality, there is certainly no desire by the public to have it forced upon them when they are watching TV with their kids. The problem that the homosexual crowd can't get past with middle America is that generally speaking they don't want their children exposed to any kind of sexuality, never mind homosexuality. Now, I know I'm about to hear the dopey arguments about how Trek shows heterosexual relationships and intimate activities all of the time and of course there's a big difference: parents don't have to explain why Miles and Keiko are kissing each other.

Another thing homosexuals can't get past is the fact that they're not a minority in the traditional sense in that they're not defined by their race, gender, age or physical impairment. They're simply defined by who they're fucking and who they want to fuck. Whether you want to admit it or not that's the sum of it. Putting that distinguishing factor on the same level of race, age, gender or handicap is disingenuous and no matter how much the radical homosexual movement tries to make the American public buy that premise, they don't. Comparing the Kirk/Uhura kiss to the Jadzia semi-lesbian kiss is as equally disingenuous.

Americans simply don't want sexuality flaunted and most homosexuals understand that. We don't like overt PDA's from heterosexuals so the same with homosexuals can be that much more uncomfortable. My brother-in-law is gay and has lived with his partner for four years. I visit them with my wife and daughter and stay over at their condo on a regular basis (they live near Disney) and they have enough respect for us (and others in the family that they around) to not flaunt their sexuality. We know they're gay, we don't need to be reminded of it. They know I'm straight, they don't need to be reminded of it. So that being said, if the American public, like myself, in general has become pretty tolerant of homosexuality but really aren't overly comfortable with it being flaunted around us (again, we really don't like it from heterosexuals, either) why in the Hell would we want to see it during family programming on TV?

Furthermore, homosexuality is a biological abberation, being of a particular race isn't, so the Kirk/Uhura comparison doesn't hold up. It is the ultimate goal of every living creature whether it be amoeba, microbe, plant, fish, mammal, or whatever it may be, to continue the species. That is the only reason sexual desire exists in homosapiens. Now, before anyone goes ahead and says something stupid in response to that statement like, "What about men and women who don't want children but still want to have sex," that's what separates human beings from golden retrievers: we have sentience and free will and although in their minds they may not want children, their biology does want offspring whether they like it or not. The reason sex feels so good is because if it didn't human beings wouldn't "choose" to reproduce. That's the price of free will. Homosexuality upsets nature's apple cart in this regard and goes against the fundamental nature of our existence (and no, I'm not talking about metaphysics, I'm talking about biology). Now, I'm not suggesting that it's a choice or that it's not natural (you're attracted to who you're attracted to... you can't help that.), but it is an abberation.

Your average viewer has a visceral response to sexuality and sex for a variety of reasons, some on religious and moral grounds and some based upon their feelings that these are intimate issues and should remain private, snd some just simply on the fact that they feel that it's their responsibilty to bring these issues up in their family and not TV's. Regardless of the reasons, to deny that they exist for the average family on a Wednesday night and to try to force an agenda down their throat will only cause you to lose viewers and TPTB have known this. Yes, Trek has mildly flirted with the subject of sexual orientation and the time they've attempted it they've done it in a sci-fi way to make it almost completely unidentifiable and when all came down to it in the end, the deeper message was nothing more than a message of tolerance and individuality and the discussion of sexual orientation was completetly lost (see: TNG: The Outcast). The fact is that they've realized that they can't do a homosexual character or a homosexual storyline without alienating 95% of their audience.

So speaking of alienation, let the bashing and flaming begin.

As for the episode at hand, unless you've completely missed all of the prior seasons and the explanation of the Trill symbiotic realtionship, you'd know as I know that this episode has nothing to do with sexuality whatsoever. Your symbionts aren't heterosexual or homosexual... their omnisexual. A symbiont and host become one when joined, they are no longer separate individuals. Jadzia (whatever her last name was) ceased being that person when she joined with Dax and Dax ceased being Dax when it joined with Jadzia. Jadzia Dax is a completely new person having both of the memories and personalities of Jadzia and the other six hosts (Seriously, this is all explained pretty well in the eighth episode of the series, Dax). This has nothing to do with sexuality, this has to do with being reunited with a long lost love and how circumstances beyond the former lovers control keep them apart. The male personality of the prior host Dax host was still in love with his wife, the female personality of the Kahn host and vice versa. This isn't very complicated. This has nothing to do with the Jadzia host, per se.

-Shawn