That's why I said I'm only edging towards the idea.
More bog-standard Moffat timey-wimey bollocks is indeed just or even more realistic a prospect.
Is it time to bring back the Master?
- Thread starter Green Lantern
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That's why I said I'm only edging towards the idea.
More bog-standard Moffat timey-wimey bollocks is indeed just or even more realistic a prospect.
Doctorwhovian
Fleet Captain
If Missy is the Master, it's interesting that he/she is working with the Cybermen. I think the last and only time we saw that (barring the novels and audios) previously was in The Five Doctors, where the Ainley incarnation 'helped' them and when the opportunity struck, quickly disposed of them as well. Granted, his other 'big bad' team up in Frontier In Space was brief, and the Daleks of course later exterminated him in the TV movie, and got him 'so scared' after a victory in the time war that he ran away and became Yana.
Although, the whole ressurection business that seems to be in this finale could have some connection to the Master's relentless need to survive. The "End Of Time" ressurected Simm body was 'dying', as have other Masters in the classic series and the TV movie, so the Master might need some Cybermen technology to survive again or reboot his/her regenerations. Or something like that.
Although, the whole ressurection business that seems to be in this finale could have some connection to the Master's relentless need to survive. The "End Of Time" ressurected Simm body was 'dying', as have other Masters in the classic series and the TV movie, so the Master might need some Cybermen technology to survive again or reboot his/her regenerations. Or something like that.
Coming into this late: which Master?
Meaning the regular villain, who'll turn up a lot and saves the writer the effort of explaining why the villain is a villain, but who can actually becoming a charming fan favourite in his own right (Delgado, Ainley 1981-86)...
Or the Big Name guest spot villain who appears as a one-off who has more backplot with the Doctor than most (Deadly Assassin, Survival, all the new series)?
Both have their downside. The point of the Master is to be a regular villain. But at the same time, as Robert Holmes and Douglas Adams pointed out, a villain who is just assumed to be a villain without any motivation beyond, basically, wanting to beat the Doctor, is rather boring. Once the surprise re-appearance is gone, then what's left (apart from the charm of the actor)?
Meaning the regular villain, who'll turn up a lot and saves the writer the effort of explaining why the villain is a villain, but who can actually becoming a charming fan favourite in his own right (Delgado, Ainley 1981-86)...
Or the Big Name guest spot villain who appears as a one-off who has more backplot with the Doctor than most (Deadly Assassin, Survival, all the new series)?
Both have their downside. The point of the Master is to be a regular villain. But at the same time, as Robert Holmes and Douglas Adams pointed out, a villain who is just assumed to be a villain without any motivation beyond, basically, wanting to beat the Doctor, is rather boring. Once the surprise re-appearance is gone, then what's left (apart from the charm of the actor)?
It would be nice if maybe he became more of an anti-hero, like what DC did with Sinestro. Less mustache twirling, more motivation.
An insane villain gets very boring, very quickly.
An insane villain gets very boring, very quickly.
It be funny if the next time we see the Master was in a much earlier incarnation. Prior to his Delgado incarnation. He runs in to the 12th Doctor and keeps getting defeated (perhaps easily) and sometimes forced to regenerate via his failures. Perhaps multiple times (so there are maybe four or five Masters during a series or two's worth of episodes). Then the Doctor frees Gallifrey and runs into either the Simms' Master, or his next incarnation after that. That Master points at the Doctor and basically says. "You! It was you that killed me all those times". And gets even more upset at the Doctor than ever.
Terence Dicks, commentary for "Frontier in Space", episode 6
I think these questions are important for consideration for me when I ponder if the Master should return. Personally, I think the Master's character arc ended beautifully in his last appearance, and that this character shouldn't return.
Yeah, despite the who silliness with him and the Master race (ugh...), the character still ended on a solid note. He gave his life to save the Doctor (albeit to take on the Time Lords, but all the same), thus fullfilling the character's intended end all the way back from Letts' time. And in a regeneration story, nonetheless.
I thought the silliness in Simm WAS to counter the silliness to Tennant's Doctor?
Of course, I think that they made him TOO silly and happy-go-lucky in his first story... but he was better in End of Time, despite the ludicrous plotline surrounding him.
Also, wasn't the Ainley Master supposed to be the third FORM of the Delgado Master? Like the crispy, huge-eyed Master was Delgado's second, frail form after some accident or something?
Of course, I think that they made him TOO silly and happy-go-lucky in his first story... but he was better in End of Time, despite the ludicrous plotline surrounding him.
Also, wasn't the Ainley Master supposed to be the third FORM of the Delgado Master? Like the crispy, huge-eyed Master was Delgado's second, frail form after some accident or something?
It is speculated that the "crispy" version is the Delgado incarnation after having a bad run in with something (I think it was an audio book that suggest it was Susan stealing his TARDIS), and the Delgado incarnation being the 13th Master, and thus not able to regenerate normally. The Ainley Master and after stole bodies to stay alive. Most efforts were to find ways to gain more regenerations, either from Gallifrey, the Doctor, or just stealing bodies to extend his life. The Timelords did offer him a new regeneration cycle for helping the Doctor in the "Five Doctors", and did being him back for the Time War with a new set. The Simms Master was an unknown number Master after the Time Lords gave him a new set. We know he could regenerate, but refused to to spite the Doctor.
This technically means that all forms of the Master we saw in the original run and the movie were really life extension attempts of the Delgado (13th) Master.
This is partly the reason why I'd like to see the Doctor run into an earlier incarnation of the Master. We know the Master has run into later incarnations of the Doctor as far back as the "Trial of a Time Lord" serial, as the Master mentions the Valeyard being a verson of the Doctor between his 12th and final incarnation. This suggests that the Master has met a lot more of the Doctors than just the Six up to that point in the series.
This technically means that all forms of the Master we saw in the original run and the movie were really life extension attempts of the Delgado (13th) Master.
This is partly the reason why I'd like to see the Doctor run into an earlier incarnation of the Master. We know the Master has run into later incarnations of the Doctor as far back as the "Trial of a Time Lord" serial, as the Master mentions the Valeyard being a verson of the Doctor between his 12th and final incarnation. This suggests that the Master has met a lot more of the Doctors than just the Six up to that point in the series.
12th/1st-A meets the original 1st Master. That could make some interesting play off one and other. Especially if the Master isn't just flat out evil from word one; more misguided. Him and the Doctor both thinking they're doing what's right, but the Master more iron-fisted about it.
Yeah, I always wondered why couldn't there just be more incarnations of the Master from before Delgado. The actors wouldn't need to look to Delgado and wouldn't feel thus ripped from his performance (which, honestly, is how Ainley's Master feels like) and be something new. I'm surprised Big Finish hadn't explored that idea more frequently, in fact.
Oh! That's right! I forgot about that. Various accounts I've read did state Delgado's Master would have taken a bullet for Pertwee's Doctor (so to speak). I'm now ashamed I did not catch the parallel in Tennant's finale.
Sincerely,
Bill
Well, the OP got his wish.
Never thought I'd be right about this.
Never thought I'd be right about this.
I would have rather seen The Rani return than The Master. Or even a whole new Timelord. It would have been even better if it was The Doctor's Daughter since he did leave her for dead.
