Is it Possible to Plaiarise Yourself?

[Finn]

One thing to think about- researchers often cite their earlier work, to show where the info came from...


Okay, I'm now on a laptop. Technically, there is nothing wrong with using your prior work. However, it is kind of tacky using work from when you failed a course. I wouldn't reuse a report from the first time I failed a course. Also, it's lazy.

You put in a lot of effort defending yourself in this thread. Why don't you put that much effort into making new papers for the course.

 

[archeryguy1701]

I could see if I passed the class, but since I didn't it should negate all the work I did. I'm allowed to take the class over so I already have an advantage. I should be allowed to take my failed writting and improve upon it, isn't that the point of the class?

You're not taking a failed paper and improving it. You're taking a paper that's already been graded, applying the teacher's corrections, and turning it in. That is cheating. You would have an argument if you were improving a paper that a teacher hasn't already critiqued. Like I said above, the teachers want to see your ability to write. What if you do what you propose, get a good grade this one time, and then blow the rest of your papers because you suddenly don't have the answers anymore?

I could do that, but then the system wins. I'd rather turn in an average paper and beat the system than turn in an excellent paper and have the system win.

Just drop the class. By wasting all of your time trying to stick it to the man, you're going to fail anyways. At least if you get out now, you might get some of your tuition back and it'll save you the embarrassment of having the teacher swat you down for doing what you've been told not to do.

 

[Kestra]

I don't know what the policy is where he attends class, but many universities have very strict plagiarism policies. If they consider it plagiarism, he may get kicked out altogether instead of just being "swat down" by a teacher.

 

[archeryguy1701]

I don't know what the policy is where he attends class, but many universities have very strict plagiarism policies. If they consider it plagiarism, he may get kicked out altogether instead of just being "swat down" by a teacher.

True, but we aren't asking the important question- if he gets kicked out, who wins- him or the system?

 

[Scout101]

He could probably fail the class for not turning in new work, but they'd have a hard time justifying expelling him from school for cheating off of, uh, himself...

 

[Yoda]

It does sound a bit bullshit to me. The failing for having too many absences bit, that is.

I don't think I dealt with that at all in my college career. Sometimes there would be in-class stuff that would count toward your grade: surprise quizzes, little group projects, etc... But typically if you could do the work and pass the tests without showing up to class.

I failed a physics class by missing too many of the labs. That made sense for the most part, you can't really make them up, you have to be there. Even then, they changed it to an Incomplete, and I just redid the lab portion. They didn't make me retake the whole fucking class.

Writing classes are kind of bullshit anyway. The grading is always way too subjective and somehow can always be improved just as easily through ass kissing as actually improving your essays.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Have you ever thought about just writing the fucking thing? Students spent their time rallying against the system are generally the same students who are full of excuses about why their performance isn't as good as they think it should be (in their head).

I could do that, but then the system wins. I'd rather turn in an average paper and beat the system than turn in an excellent paper and have the system win.

That's great - try explaining that at an interview "sure I've got mediocre grades but I'm actually better than that, I was fighting the man".

That brings this to mind...

(Even though a lot of other things this guy says are tasteless at best, THIS rant is worth it.)

 

[Kestra]

I failed a physics class by missing too many of the labs. That made sense for the most part, you can't really make them up, you have to be there. Even then, they changed it to an Incomplete, and I just redid the lab portion. They didn't make me retake the whole fucking class.

I failed a chem class my very first quarter of college because I was so depressed I couldn't even get out of bed some days and I ended up missing two labs. Later when I was getting treatment and trying to sort everything out, several advisors told me that with a medical explanation I could definitely have that grade removed even if it meant I had to retake the class. Another section of the administration disagreed, saying that it was impossible that I was depressed because I had done too well in my other classes.

 

[JoeZhang]

He could probably fail the class for not turning in new work, but they'd have a hard time justifying expelling him from school for cheating off of, uh, himself...

They wouldn't need to - he's simply fail for not complying with the instructions he was given.

Then he's have the chance to stick it to the man for the third time.

 

[JoeZhang]

I don't think we have exactly the same opinions here, but I do feel that there is sometimes laziness on the part of the professor who is assigning the paper topics.

It's more straight forward than that, you simply aren't very important. For an academic to get anywhere, you need to turn out product (Papers, books) and/or bring in funding (cash). Teaching is a hygiene factor, you need to do it at the bare minimum level so the students don't complain but it does absolutely nothing for you in career terms if you go above and beyond.

Now people are going to say "well it should matter!" and maybe it should but the way academia is currently structured in the west, it doesn't make sense for an academic to concentrate too much on something that has so little tangible rewards.

From your perspective what is laziness is simply a logical response to the reward and promotion system that is in place.

 

[Scout101]

Well, not sure lack of pride/effort in one's job is a real good argument favoring the teacher there. He's an English teacher, not like he's in the sciences and just teaching on the side to get access to research grants. What, he's slumming it until his novel finally gets finished?

Part of why tenure is so crazy a system. If it's obvious they're only doing the bare minimum, and don't give a shit about the students, should be able to replace them with someone that WANTS to do the job...

 

[JoeZhang]

If it's obvious they're only doing the bare minimum, and don't give a shit about the students, should be able to replace them with someone that WANTS to do the job...

But the reward system provided by the employer says to concentrate on product and funding. If you were working a job and you were asking to do two tasks and the rewards were all associated with one task, why would you give priority to the other? You are attacking the wrong target when you attack the lecturer, he/she is simply responding to the system as it's set-up.

He's an English teacher

And? Still need to publish if you want to get anywhere. You are a nobody without publications and it makes it very difficult to move or get promoted and directly impacts your job security.

If it's obvious they're only doing the bare minimum, and don't give a shit about the students, should be able to replace them with someone that WANTS to do the job...

But they do want to do the job - as it's outlined by their employer. As above, you want that to change, then the reward system needs to change. You can't attack the employee for responding to what his employer wants.

 

[Franklin]

Part of why tenure is so crazy a system. If it's obvious they're only doing the bare minimum, and don't give a shit about the students, should be able to replace them with someone that WANTS to do the job...

Let's see, bringing in thousands in grant money, but bad teaching evaluations. Published three articles just this year, but not very popular with the students. Sorry, no tenure for you.

Where I went to graduate school the faculty in my department (in the social sciences) made it very clear that undergraduates were a low priority to them. They were a distraction. Teaching assistants even taught some of the introductory classes instead of professors. It might have mattered that teaching evaluations meant next to nothing in tenure decisions.
Indeed, a professor who was an excellent teacher and very popular with the students did not get tenure while I was there because of a "spotty" publications record that relied too much on co-authoring.

Unless you are a professor at a liberal arts college where the emphasis is more on teaching, the amount of time and effort you put into teaching is just a matter of personal and professional pride. It matters little beyond that. Frankly, I love to teach. That was the draw of the profession for me. But I think I'm an exception. I know a lot of other colleagues who find teaching the bane of their existence. Don't believe me? Ask their teaching assistants.

 

[Snaploud]

It's not plagiarism, but it may be a violation of your school's Honor Code (probably available on your school's website).

 

[Trekker4747]

What kind of assignment is it? How many words/pages?

The assignment is to make a personal/puplic argument. So, you tell about some event in your life that changed you or whatever and then you relate it to some bigger issue. Mine is my mom dying of cancer and I'm relating it cancer awareness. It's suposed to be 5-6 pages. The page requirements are actually less, so it would sort of be a new paper, but if I turn it in, it will pop up as plagiarism. That is why I wanted to fight it, because technically it's not.

In this one paragraph I already see your solution.

Write a new paper about plagiarism and the school's policy on it.

The school, as private entity, is allowed to set whatever rules it wants. Legally it's not plagiarism but the school considers you using your own previous work again as being so. Their definition of plagiarism sucks and I'm sure there's a better word for it but, whatever. Their rule is that you cannot use previous work which makes a lot of sense, honestly.

So make a new paper whose topic is the school's policy on plagiarism, what plagiarism is or even cases of plagiarism throughout history. Your previous paper didn't meet snuff, you don't get to dick around with it and do it over again it may not be plagiarism but it's still cheating.

And comparing this incident to the problems with TSA and the USA PATRIOT Act is just stupid. That's a whole other can of worms, it's like an economy-sized can of worms you buy at CostCo compared to this incident which is less "can of worms" and more "can of that spring-loaded snake-streamer thing."

 

[Nowhere Man]

I'm glad to see the discussion expanding beyond the original topic. My teacher in this class is a teachers aide because the university gets them to teach the lower level classes. You huys have answered the question of whether or not you can plagiarize yourself and I think you. My decision is made and I will keep it to myself.

On the topic of tenure and professors and such. Most of my professers have been accessible about 75-80% of the time, so I can't complain, but often times when writing history papers there is a lot of vaugeness as if they either have a lot of shit to do(which they do) or they just want you to figure it out, read between the lines. They also seem to be nice and not complete assholes. This is anoying, I want you to be an asshole when I write papers, don't worry about my feelings, I will hate you, but not forever. I want to know exactly what I did wrong. I get good job, well written, but a few errors. That drives me nuts, good job? Is that average, or above average. I will tell anyone who obviously puts effort in good job. Even if it's got mistakes. Now, all of that bieng said, in the "real" world when i'm not writing a paper or working on a project, I hate when people correct my grammer or whatever.(that means you TBBS) Frankly, unless i'm talking to someone formaly about something important, who gives a shit? I know some people want to sound proper and professional all the time, but I don't care and I don't want to hear it. Ok, that's my rant for today.

Oh yeah as far the professor not giving a shit, well they should. I pay thousands of dollars to the school, I expect you to pay me attention when needed, if you can't do that, then you need to find another job. I know waitresses who get paid penuts and they have to care for that customer or at least pretend to care about their shitty life in order to get a good tip. If the school or the proffesser(who gets paid pretty good) doesn't give a shit, than niether do I. I am a customer and should be treated with good customer service.

 

[Snaploud]

in the "real" world when i'm not writing a paper or working on a project, I hate when people correct my grammer or whatever.(that means you TBBS) Frankly, unless i'm talking to someone formaly about something important, who gives a shit?

Dude, everybody cares. One or two grammatical or spelling mistakes isn't a big deal, but a complete disregard for grammar/spelling makes a person come across about as well as a drunk guy alone in a corner.

 

[Franklin]

Oh yeah as far the professor not giving a shit, well they should. I pay thousands of dollars to the school, I expect you to pay me attention when needed, if you can't do that, then you need to find another job. I know waitresses who get paid penuts and they have to care for that customer or at least pretend to care about their shitty life in order to get a good tip. If the school or the proffesser(who gets paid pretty good) doesn't give a shit, than niether do I. I am a customer and should be treated with good customer service.

You'd think so, wouldn't you? Guess what? Expect nothing. You are one of 10,000 or 20,000, or 30,000 or more students. A professor who gives you attention beyond office hours at a large school is a luxury you should revel in.

And, professors get paid "pretty good?" Us rank-and-file ones? Where? Are they hiring?

I wish students tipped me. I love to have a student stop me on the way out after class and say, "Really good lecuture today, Dr. H. I left a little something on my desk for you."

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

in the "real" world when i'm not writing a paper or working on a project, I hate when people correct my grammer or whatever.(that means you TBBS) Frankly, unless i'm talking to someone formaly about something important, who gives a shit?

Dude, everybody cares. One or two grammatical or spelling mistakes isn't a big deal, but a complete disregard for grammar/spelling makes a person come across about as well as a drunk guy alone in a corner.

Pretty much.

 

[SG-17]

in the "real" world when i'm not writing a paper or working on a project, I hate when people correct my grammer or whatever.(that means you TBBS) Frankly, unless i'm talking to someone formaly about something important, who gives a shit?

Dude, everybody cares. One or two grammatical or spelling mistakes isn't a big deal, but a complete disregard for grammar/spelling makes a person come across about as well as a drunk guy alone in a corner.

Pretty much.

Quite.

I'm glad to see the discussion expanding beyond the original topic. My teacher in this class is a teachers aide because the university gets them to teach the lower level classes. You huys have answered the question of whether or not you can plagiarize yourself and I think you. My decision is made and I will keep it to myself.

On the topic of tenure and professors and such. Most of my professers have been accessible about 75-80% of the time, so I can't complain, but often times when writing history papers there is a lot of vaugeness as if they either have a lot of shit to do(which they do) or they just want you to figure it out, read between the lines. They also seem to be nice and not complete assholes. This is anoying, I want you to be an asshole when I write papers, don't worry about my feelings, I will hate you, but not forever. I want to know exactly what I did wrong. I get good job, well written, but a few errors. That drives me nuts, good job? Is that average, or above average. I will tell anyone who obviously puts effort in good job. Even if it's got mistakes. Now, all of that bieng said, in the "real" world when i'm not writing a paper or working on a project, I hate when people correct my grammer or whatever.(that means you TBBS) Frankly, unless i'm talking to someone formaly about something important, who gives a shit? I know some people want to sound proper and professional all the time, but I don't care and I don't want to hear it. Ok, that's my rant for today.

Oh yeah as far the professor not giving a shit, well they should. I pay thousands of dollars to the school, I expect you to pay me attention when needed, if you can't do that, then you need to find another job. I know waitresses who get paid penuts and they have to care for that customer or at least pretend to care about their shitty life in order to get a good tip. If the school or the proffesser(who gets paid pretty good) doesn't give a shit, than niether do I. I am a customer and should be treated with good customer service.

Messing up a word by substituting a letter for the one right next to it on a keyboard is one thing, but using a letter on the complete opposite side is just lazy. Also not using your browser's built in spell-check is also lazy. Trying to submit old work with edits is also lazy.

I see a trend.