Is it ok to have sex with holograms?

[sonak]

I'll second BillJ's throwing of the b.s. flag.


If someone is getting influenced by playing violent video games, or by violent holodeck fantasies, to the extent that it's affecting their non-fantasy life, then that means there's something else going on with that person.


Maybe they have psychological problems, family issues, etc.

 

[Timo]

There's also a slight difference between "doing the next best thing" (say, paintball) and "doing the thing itself, only not for real" (say, holo-gunning down a holo-victim with a holo-Thompson) - but both can be argued to decrease the odds of "doing the thing itself for real". The more accurate the simulation, the better one gets convinced that the thing in question either is worth doing for real, or isn't. And most experiences with realistic violence act as deterrent for committing it again/for real, simply because it doesn't merely take a sick mind to do most of these things. It takes a sicker mind than you thought you have - and that's what you find out through simulation.

I've seen some convincing studies indicating that venting of aggression never decreases aggression, quite to the contrary. But that's largely unrelated to what a person does with that aggression. If playing paintball increases your lust for playing more paintball, that doesn't necessarily translate to an increased urge to machine-gun people to death.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Cyke101]

Every time we have a recession, or the depression, the inflation rate skyrocketed through the roof. The inflation rate is so high because the government spends too much.

I don't mean to go offtopic, but that's not how it works. If there's a recession or a depression, there's a shortage of money in circulation for one reason or another (Stock market crash, housing crisis, mass migration of money out of the country, whatever), and inflation is the means to try to preserve the value of money when there's a shortage. A government ideally should have money saved away for such occasions, so that the new influx of money can help generate circulation of capital. Whenever there's a recession or a depression then, the government dips into its money reserves and infuses the market to generate growth, by public programs, purchases from private companies, or other means. After all, it is the government that ideally should regulate and evaluate its own currency.

Government spends money in reaction to shortage, it's not the cause of it. FDR's New Deal of the 1930s to fix the Great Depression is an example of this kind of recovery. Reagan's push for more corporatization and the private sector was a factor of 1980s economic expansion. Dubya's 2008 bailout prevented banks from channeling money overseas (avoiding the fate that fell upon Argentina in 2004) to keep money within US circulation, and Obama's stimulus package helped increase consumer spending and to support public workers like firefighters and police officers so that the economy isn't in freefall. In each of those cases, regardless of party affiliation, the government spent a LOT of money in order to stabilize the economy, or at least to curb the depletion of capital.

Think of it like a swimming pool. Water can't circulate if there's not enough in there. But if you pour in enough water, not only will there be enough to use, but there'll be enough to keep the filter pipes flowing, ensuring quality. The main problem to worry about then is injecting the system with too *much* water, which is why the government keeps money in reserve rather than flooding the market with it.

With that said, the only thing I can ever see any sort of regulation when the holodeck is around is the implementation of safety measures (the protection of life, as well as liberty and happiness). Beyond that, depending on what state or city you live in, these days the government rarely cracks down on places like bathhouses or sex shops or pornography or honeymoon suites.

 

[sonak]

It's more relevant to the thread to ask: if you found out someone was choosing the option of killing hookers in "grand theft auto," would you report them to the authorities because you thought they were a danger to real-life prostitutes?

Who hasn't killed a hooker, out of those who played, in Grand Theft Auto? That's the better question.

I haven't.



All this discussions about movies or games making children violent is bullshit in my opinion. You are already like that before you play a game. GTA is a good example. The game doesn't force you to kill hookers or run people over with a car. You choose to do that all on your own. I myself am playing FPS shooters with the aim of killing the least amount of people, and I stopped playing them because of that. And I would love to see such a game where you actually have the possibility to knock people unconscious, tie them up, etc... to let them stay alive. I liked Red Dead Redemption very much because it gave you that choice.

So if you had a holodeck and would use it to rape simulations, then there's definately something wrong with you. The more realistic it gets, the greater is the inhibition threshold. So people who rape realistic holografic projections would be only a very tiny step away from raping real people.

If this were the case, you'd expect to see lots of stats on violence committed by fanatic players of first-person shooter games.

Is there any evidence to back up your assertion that those who are into fantasy game violence are just so close to having those violent tendencies emerge in real life?

 

[JarodRussell]

Who hasn't killed a hooker, out of those who played, in Grand Theft Auto? That's the better question.

I haven't.



All this discussions about movies or games making children violent is bullshit in my opinion. You are already like that before you play a game. GTA is a good example. The game doesn't force you to kill hookers or run people over with a car. You choose to do that all on your own. I myself am playing FPS shooters with the aim of killing the least amount of people, and I stopped playing them because of that. And I would love to see such a game where you actually have the possibility to knock people unconscious, tie them up, etc... to let them stay alive. I liked Red Dead Redemption very much because it gave you that choice.

So if you had a holodeck and would use it to rape simulations, then there's definately something wrong with you. The more realistic it gets, the greater is the inhibition threshold. So people who rape realistic holografic projections would be only a very tiny step away from raping real people.

If this were the case, you'd expect to see lots of stats on violence committed by fanatic players of first-person shooter games.

Is there any evidence to back up your assertion that those who are into fantasy game violence are just so close to having those violent tendencies emerge in real life?

You haven't got my point yet. Playing FPS with a mouse or controller in front of a 24" screen isn't realistic at all. There are many people who just go Rambo in these games but wouldn't even want to play paintball. Going Rambo in a fully realistic holographic simulation, now that would be something different.

 

[BillJ]

You haven't got my point yet. Playing FPS with a mouse or controller in front of a 24" screen isn't realistic at all. There are many people who just go Rambo in these games but wouldn't even want to play paintball. Going Rambo in a fully realistic holographic simulation, now that would be something different.

I don't know. Watching James Marsten pop someones top looks pretty gruesome on my 40" screen.

 

[Sorak]

Seriously, we all know what the holodeck really is for. I'm just sorry for the crewmen who have to clean up after the holosuite has been used...

 

[Cyke101]

Seriously, we all know what the holodeck really is for. I'm just sorry for the crewmen who have to clean up after the holosuite has been used...

TNG established that ships are self-cleaning. Probably because people refused to do holosuite clean-up duty.

 

[BillJ]

Seriously, we all know what the holodeck really is for. I'm just sorry for the crewmen who have to clean up after the holosuite has been used...

TNG established that ships are self-cleaning. Probably because people refused to do holosuite clean-up duty.

Though I imagine public holodecks will be much like public toilets.

 

[Cyke101]

Seriously, we all know what the holodeck really is for. I'm just sorry for the crewmen who have to clean up after the holosuite has been used...

TNG established that ships are self-cleaning. Probably because people refused to do holosuite clean-up duty.

Though I imagine public holodecks will be much like public toilets.

Public holodecks aren't so bad, just don't use the ones in the park or the beach. Also, be extra-wary of Port-o-Decks.

 

[infinix]

Though I imagine public holodecks will be much like public toilets.

Sorry, couldn't resist jumping back into this discussion.

Regardless of what your stance on how holodecks should be used, I think its safe to assume that there will NOT be public holodecks.

A public holodeck would be constantly occupied by the deviants of the society and it would just end up being a place where the lowest of the low congregate.

Please don't reply with "and what's wrong with that." The closest example I can think of is neighborhoods fighting to keep casinos and slot parlors out of their county. Its one of those "Not in my back yard" issues.

 

[Sorak]

Seriously, we all know what the holodeck really is for. I'm just sorry for the crewmen who have to clean up after the holosuite has been used...

TNG established that ships are self-cleaning. Probably because people refused to do holosuite clean-up duty.

That would also explain an eventual Asimov-like rebellion of the machines. Carrying out such gross duties every day must be humiliating.

Though I imagine public holodecks will be much like public toilets.

Are we talking about holodecks with graffiti and glory holes? Imagine if Klingons used them, they would be a mess.

 

[Cyke101]

Though I imagine public holodecks will be much like public toilets.

Sorry, couldn't resist jumping back into this discussion.

Regardless of what your stance on how holodecks should be used, I think its safe to assume that there will NOT be public holodecks.

A public holodeck would be constantly occupied by the deviants of the society and it would just end up being a place where the lowest of the low congregate.

Please don't reply with "and what's wrong with that." The closest example I can think of is neighborhoods fighting to keep casinos and slot parlors out of their county. Its one of those "Not in my back yard" issues.

Or, there could be public holodecks if there's a worker there to monitor the environment, in the way that you can have park rangers, outdoor maintenance, or police patrols (bike, horse, or segway -- it's the FUTURE!) for public parks. Of course, by nature of it being public, that also means that it would have to be a shared and open space regulated and modulated by that worker that can accommodate as many people as possible -- say, for example, a way to mimic the beaches of Risa in a place like South Dakota.

The flaw in your analogy though is that casinos are private property and equipped with their own security force, and anyone can get kicked out or arrested for misbehavior. I'm not a fan of casinos either but most casinos I've seen or been to have pretty tight, really attentive security measures. (The guard is just a decoy!) They can also forbid anyone from entering for whatever reason they deem fit, even if they've never met you before.

 

[JarodRussell]

I like how you all just look at this from the Human/Terran POV. What about aliens who slime everything they touch because it's simply the way they are?

What does a public toilet look like in the 24th century when you have dozens to hundreds of different species walking around?

 

[Sorak]

I like how you all just look at this from the Human/Terran POV. What about aliens who slime everything they touch because it's simply the way they are?

What does a public toilet look like in the 24th century when you have dozens to hundreds of different species walking around?

Again: imagine Klingon holodecks. Just imagine. No, really. They surely don't only play the battle of Klakh du Prick or whatever it's called...

 

[Saquist]

In the holodeck?

What would be the ethics of this?

Could partners serving on different ships have holograms of each other.

I don't think there is any ethics to it.
I think you're talking morality.

Ultimately morality isn't just a dictate of avoidance of wrongs against other people but also wrongs upon yourself aswell.

The hologram isn't a real person. So it's NOT fornication. If anything it's just like masturbation in the forms of those exotic toys.

So heres the issue:

Is right to get your jollies when ever you want them with no compromise or cost of yourself? This is the same concept we try to teach to children at a young age. My 2 year old cousin runs up to people and says "mine" whether it's hers or not. Now, psychologically that's because she's been given everything she's ever wanted and everything from her perspective is a matter of ownership and obviously this creates a cute but spoiled child.

If this can happen to a child who is essentially a blank slate then we can question whether this can happen to adults with the pleasure of sex. If you're able to satisfy yourself when ever you want one might eventual become so accustomed to self sex with out the restrictions or relationships and compromises of personalities that one may begin to self conscioiusly distance themselves in certain ways. Sex is a powerful motivator what does it mean if it can be offered with absolutely no strings attached. We'll we be spoiled?

Consider that the animal kingdom makes a big deal about one sex pleasing the other with all sort of elaborate displays. It's an interesting question. I would personally avoid such behavior. It doesn't seem inherently wrong but it could lead to a spoiled child attitude.

 

[AstroSmurf]

I hate to be the one to break this to you folks but I doubt clean-up in a holodeck would be this big of an issue. The holodeck uses a combination of optics, forcefields and replicator technology to create the illusions. With that being said, I would assume any... leftovers... from the user's experience would simply be swept away by the replicators when the program ended.

(Ignoring Tom and Harry's silly holographic wine/heartburn dialog in Sandrine's, the shows were fairly consistent in showing that all food, beverages and objects consumed or used on the holodeck were actually replicated and inserted into the illusion. The rest were photons held in a shaped forcefield. Data explains this in some detail in the episode "Elementary, Dear Data".)

 

[BillJ]

A public holodeck would be constantly occupied by the deviants of the society and it would just end up being a place where the lowest of the low congregate.

Isn't it better to have all the 'deviants' congregate in one place? Easier to keep an eye on them that way.

Your police state will be easier to manage that way.

 

[CaptainStoner]

Is it ok yet?

 

[BillJ]

Is it ok yet?

It's been okay to fornicate with technology since at least 1982.

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Custer's_Revenge