Is it ok to have sex with holograms?

[infinix]

Most people here somehow draw the parallel that because I believe regulation of Holograms is necessary, I am also advocating Big Brother style thought police. I am NOT advocating thought regulation.

Holodeck isn't a fantasy that exist only in your mind. The premise here is that holodeck is a technology where your fantasy becomes effective reality. Looking and interacting with a hologram is a world of difference from looking and interacting with computer generated pixels. It still wouldn't even be close if you were having cybersex through a webcam. With we have today, whether you are looking at playboy or watching porn video, still boils down to we having to fantasize about it in our minds.

This is not the case with the hologram. You speak the words, and anything you can wish for is created. After it is create, you stop fantasizing it and you start living it. Everything we know about the hologram tells us that it is a perfect replica of the reality. We even see characters either fooled into believing it is real or simply chooses to believe it is real.

If and when we actually have that technology, you bet your ass it will be regulated, just as porn, prostitution, drugs, incest, polygamy, and hosts of other things are regulated today. Yes, the government can't really stop you if you choose to do whatever in private, but the government sure as hell wouldn't facilitate your actions towards those ends by legalizing them. And you better believe that you will go to jail if you are caught.

To those of you that says you agree that underage porn should always be illegal. You are also drawing a line in the sand, just in a different place from where I'm drawing the line. In fact, the defining underage is more difficult than defining rape/torture/murder. Is 16 underage? is 14? or is it 21? or is it whenever the girl/boy tells you she/he wants it?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

It's masturbation. It's fine.

 

[sonak]

Most people here somehow draw the parallel that because I believe regulation of Holograms is necessary, I am also advocating Big Brother style thought police. I am NOT advocating thought regulation.

Holodeck isn't a fantasy that exist only in your mind. The premise here is that holodeck is a technology where your fantasy becomes effective reality. Looking and interacting with a hologram is a world of difference from looking and interacting with computer generated pixels. It still wouldn't even be close if you were having cybersex through a webcam. With we have today, whether you are looking at playboy or watching porn video, still boils down to we having to fantasize about it in our minds.

This is not the case with the hologram. You speak the words, and anything you can wish for is created. After it is create, you stop fantasizing it and you start living it. Everything we know about the hologram tells us that it is a perfect replica of the reality. We even see characters either fooled into believing it is real or simply chooses to believe it is real.

If and when we actually have that technology, you bet your ass it will be regulated, just as porn, prostitution, drugs, incest, polygamy, and hosts of other things are regulated today. Yes, the government can't really stop you if you choose to do whatever in private, but the government sure as hell wouldn't facilitate your actions towards those ends by legalizing them. And you better believe that you will go to jail if you are caught.

To those of you that says you agree that underage porn should always be illegal. You are also drawing a line in the sand, just in a different place from where I'm drawing the line. In fact, the defining underage is more difficult than defining rape/torture/murder. Is 16 underage? is 14? or is it 21? or is it whenever the girl/boy tells you she/he wants it?

you seem to be caught up in the idea of the holodeck as "real" in a meaningful way, though. I know that Trek itself has messed this up and blurred boundaries in the name of creating stories and drama, but I think the original idea is that the holodeck is just a big, 3-D, Virtual Reality video game, with the holograms as characters in the game.


As such, there's no need to "regulate" it any more than regulating how to treat video game characters, which is just silly. If they're sentient, it's a totally different story, but I think the whole "holograms developing sentience" storylines are silly. They're programmed by a computer to specific guidelines as part of a simulation. How the heck would they achieve sentience? (But I do love the holodoc character on Voyager, don't get me wrong)


now the argument that violence in video games and in holodecks might lead to desensitization to it in RL is a valid one, but I think more responsibility on the part of parents, companies, etc. in what they produce and consume is a better approach than Big Brother regulation.

 

[The Inquisitor]

In regards to the point about paedo's and mental's partaking in bizarre sexual fantasies on the holodeck just take a look at the way the internet is used for sexual gratification now. You type in a few keywords on your favorite adult site and you have a whole range of categories to choose from, but type in 'violent rape' or something more sinister in too many times and the boys in blue will be round to put you on a list. I'm fairly sure similar fail safes could be put in place on holodeck technology to stop such depravity (should said tech be linked to 'the net')

 

[Elias Vaughn]

On the topic of holograms, when we see holograms used in the Trek Universe, it is always holograms of real people.

Flotter.

...ewwwww.

 

[Kail]

Short answer: yes it is okay to have sex with a hologram. Holosex is after all, just a fancier method of masturbation.

Bet my wife would still consider it cheating.

 

[Keith1701]

If you're okay with having sex with androids, blow-up dolls, and anything else that isn't a real flesh-and blood-person with their own mind, a hologram should be no problem, IMO...

I agree.

 

[Sam McCord]

Is it ok to have sex with holograms?

Just remember... with any relationship... especially a holographic one... you get out of it what you put in.

 

[John O.]

Short answer: yes it is okay to have sex with a hologram. Holosex is after all, just a fancier method of masturbation.

Bet my wife would still consider it cheating.

Superficially it's at least a little more like playing with a sex toy.

But even though this is kind of tongue in cheek, I think it goes to the heart of the question of what infidelity is. The question is coming up somewhere in Miscellaneous as well, but depending on the answer to the question of 'what exactly constitutes infidelity?', having sex with a hologram may or may not be it. If you just use the surface level definition of "sex with another person", it's not but, that's not a very sophisticated or useful way to look at it. Obviously there are a lot of other more nuanced behaviors that people consider cheating... So clearly there's a more sophisticated definition needed to really get to the heart of the issue...

 

[Paradon]

Most people here somehow draw the parallel that because I believe regulation of Holograms is necessary, I am also advocating Big Brother style thought police. I am NOT advocating thought regulation.

Holodeck isn't a fantasy that exist only in your mind. The premise here is that holodeck is a technology where your fantasy becomes effective reality. Looking and interacting with a hologram is a world of difference from looking and interacting with computer generated pixels. It still wouldn't even be close if you were having cybersex through a webcam. With we have today, whether you are looking at playboy or watching porn video, still boils down to we having to fantasize about it in our minds.

This is not the case with the hologram. You speak the words, and anything you can wish for is created. After it is create, you stop fantasizing it and you start living it. Everything we know about the hologram tells us that it is a perfect replica of the reality. We even see characters either fooled into believing it is real or simply chooses to believe it is real.

If and when we actually have that technology, you bet your ass it will be regulated, just as porn, prostitution, drugs, incest, polygamy, and hosts of other things are regulated today. Yes, the government can't really stop you if you choose to do whatever in private, but the government sure as hell wouldn't facilitate your actions towards those ends by legalizing them. And you better believe that you will go to jail if you are caught.

To those of you that says you agree that underage porn should always be illegal. You are also drawing a line in the sand, just in a different place from where I'm drawing the line. In fact, the defining underage is more difficult than defining rape/torture/murder. Is 16 underage? is 14? or is it 21? or is it whenever the girl/boy tells you she/he wants it?

You always run into problems when you are trying to regulate how people think and what they should and should not do. It's like you're trying to tell what my problem is and how I should act accordingly and live my life; when in reality, I don't really need you to tell me how to live my life and if there is any problems I could figure out how to do eventually deal with it. Forcing people to do something and rush them into something against their will (even they may be wrong to a certain degree) only cause more problems when they think they are being mistreated. And besides that...most people can deal with their own personal problems just fine; they'll eventually figure out a way. People that get bend out of shape and start doing some nasty stuff are not very nice...like serial killers. (Believe me when I tell you, most people can deal with problems just fine; people who are like serial killers, rapists, molestors, murderers, are a few exceptions and only make up small percentage of the population.) IF people didn't ask for your help, they tend to get pissed off. Even if they are doing something that is considered socially unacceptable, they have the right to make their own mistakes if you believe in freedom, equal rights and liberty; just don't come crawling to the government for help asking for money because they don't really have a source of revenue and money to give you other than taxes. The reasons why their is many problems in other countries and in the U.S. is because of government. Every huge problem can be blamed on and traced bact to the government. Why people in the third world suffer...? ...because of their government oppressing them. Why are we experiencing this economic crisis...? ....because our government is spending out of control which drives the inflation rate up really high. If you look at the last depression we had after WW II, the inflation rate was at an all time high.... The idea that the government is all knowing organization and beings, and that they can solve all our problems is flawed.... They don't have the wisdom and knowledge about everybody to run their lives, which include things like businesses. People can solve all the problems all by themselves without them making rediculous laws and regulations. People are not as helpless and stupid s people think. (Like I said: there are only a few exceptions...rapist, molestors, and murderers.) The only time when they should step in is when someone gets seriously hurt and it is because of someone's shear negligence and dastardly criminal acts.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Would anyone here feel just a bit bothered if someone was using and abusing a simulated version of them in a holodeck? Think about it.

As long as their not posting my virtual self's antics in public forums... what's the big deal?

It would really freak me out. If somebody's doing God knows what to a *simulated* me, then they must want to do it to the *real* me, and who wouldn't be scared by that? For example, if my next door neighbor has a holodeck program in which he repeatedly kills me, over and over, I would naturally assume he wants to kill me IRL.

 

[Paradon]

Psychological problems are really no big deal and nothing to be ashamed off really. There is such a stigma around mentally illed people that most people tend to over look them when they are the ones that needed help the most.

Stuff like, sexual fantasies, are normal...but some people are a tad nastier than others, but really most of them realize the problem, seek professional help (if they want to) and move on.... Those that don't realize it is unhealthy after a while.... Well, you know how they'd end up. People make such a big deal out of everything. Like having sexual fantasies are very wrong, and when they really have psychological problems, instead of seeking professional help they tend to hide it and are ashamed of themselves, which makes the problem even worse. But A lot of people can deal with it in their own ways and move on eventually, but if they want to see a doctor to help speed things up and make the ride smoother, that's fine, too....

 

[Paradon]

Would anyone here feel just a bit bothered if someone was using and abusing a simulated version of them in a holodeck? Think about it.

As long as their not posting my virtual self's antics in public forums... what's the big deal?

It would really freak me out. If somebody's doing God knows what to a *simulated* me, then they must want to do it to the *real* me, and who wouldn't be scared by that? For example, if my next door neighbor has a holodeck program in which he repeatedly kills me, over and over, I would naturally assume he wants to kill me IRL.

The only problem I see with that is someone taking pictures and going to through personal files of someone when they are trying to create holographic images. That's like invasion of privacy, or something.... Or, even stalking! [chuckle]

 

[scotpens]

You always run into problems when you are trying to regulate how people think and what they should and should not do. It's like you're trying to tell what my problem is and how I should act accordingly and live my life; when in reality, I don't really need you to tell me how to live my life and if there is any problems I could figure out how to do eventually deal with it. Forcing people to do something and rush them into something against their will (even they may be wrong to a certain degree) only cause more problems when they think they are being mistreated. And besides that...most people can deal with their own personal problems just fine; they'll eventually figure out a way. People that get bend out of shape and start doing some nasty stuff are not very nice...like serial killers. (Believe me when I tell you, most people can deal with problems just fine; people who are like serial killers, rapists, molestors, murderers, are a few exceptions and only make up small percentage of the population.) IF people didn't ask for your help, they tend to get pissed off. Even if they are doing something that is considered socially unacceptable, they have the right to make their own mistakes if you believe in freedom, equal rights and liberty; just don't come crawling to the government for help asking for money because they don't really have a source of revenue and money to give you other than taxes. The reasons why their is many problems in other countries and in the U.S. is because of government. Every huge problem can be blamed on and traced bact to the government. Why people in the third world suffer...? ...because of their government oppressing them. Why are we experiencing this economic crisis...? ....because our government is spending out of control which drives the inflation rate up really high. If you look at the last depression we had after WW II, the inflation rate was at an all time high.... The idea that the government is all knowing organization and beings, and that they can solve all our problems is flawed.... They don't have the wisdom and knowledge about everybody to run their lives, which include things like businesses. People can solve all the problems all by themselves without them making rediculous laws and regulations. People are not as helpless and stupid s people think. (Like I said: there are only a few exceptions...rapist, molestors, and murderers.) The only time when they should step in is when someone gets seriously hurt and it is because of someone's shear negligence and dastardly criminal acts.

Paragraph breaks are your friend.

 

[Itisnotlogical]

Holographic characters who are designed specifically for the purpose of having sex with them wouldn't mind. Unless you bought a really expensive model or made it yourself I doubt they'd say anything other than "Do me, baby!" or think much beyond the same.

To bring up some of the points mentioned earlier about holograms of real people, I think that would definitely be something of an issue. What if somebody masturbated to a picture of you? Worse, what if somebody masturbated to a clandestinely-recorded video of you having sex with your partner!? It'd be a thousand times worse if they had sex with holo-you, because, in essence, they would be having sex with you. Such a character is distributed, and people see you walking down the street. "Hey, man/gal, you were damn sexy!" would not sound good said by somebody you've never met in your life.

On the other hand, if the character was based on nobody that ever existed, I would say it's okay. Like pornography, something for lonely people who don't have a partner for any sort of reason, but socially acceptable.

To some points about using such programs for rape/murder fantasies, etc., S&M videos are largely created without the government's knowledge too. It'd essentially be like a hyper-realistic S&M porno, except nobody gets hurt except a hologram that doesn't exist except in a disk or PADD or whatever data-storage device dominates the future. It would constitute evidence that a person is highly unstable, but unless the government regularly and thoroughly searches your database to make sure you're not fantasizing about raping your best friend's wife, it's a "watcha-gonna-do" situation.

 

[ngc7293]

One problem is using today's psychology to explain that in the future when we don't even know how people think then. .... anyway... It's hard to explain the future with today's thinking and yet that is what is going on here. The future is supposed to be all free of crime, but we've seen in episodes that that isn't quite true. But it is supposed to be like that.

Another thing we can't assume that everyone thinks the same. There was this thing a while back where this kid murdered some other kids in some tunnels because they were "playing" D&D. People thought D&D was a bad thing. It isn't. One bad egg doesn't make all of them bad.

Barkley had problems with the holodeck, yet Worf had no trouble killing aliens in his training sessions. It is quite likely that O'Brien and Bashir killed a few people in their holosuite adventures and they were not affected.

I think the mind has a kind of Off Switch. Most people have it. The rapist, Murderers and others who can't distinguish reality don't have that off switch.

 

[Paradon]

You know what they say? People are people no matter where you go.... A lot of Middle Eastern people I've met when I was kid and now are pretty nice and decent people.... They are nothing like how they are portrayed in some of the movies. Maybe people in the future are richer and eat better, but they're still people...more or less! [laugh]

 

[Paradon]

One problem is using today's psychology to explain that in the future when we don't even know how people think then. .... anyway... It's hard to explain the future with today's thinking and yet that is what is going on here. The future is supposed to be all free of crime, but we've seen in episodes that that isn't quite true. But it is supposed to be like that.

Another thing we can't assume that everyone thinks the same. There was this thing a while back where this kid murdered some other kids in some tunnels because they were "playing" D&D. People thought D&D was a bad thing. It isn't. One bad egg doesn't make all of them bad.

Barkley had problems with the holodeck, yet Worf had no trouble killing aliens in his training sessions. It is quite likely that O'Brien and Bashir killed a few people in their holosuite adventures and they were not affected.

I think the mind has a kind of Off Switch. Most people have it. The rapist, Murderers and others who can't distinguish reality don't have that off switch.

People learned as child how to behave like a normal human being.... Everybody knows, according to their own culture, what is expected of them. It doesn't make any sense...you know...like if you know it's wrong, why did you do it in the first place? Most people don't come right out and say, it's because they were arrogant; you have basically force it out of them by interrogation. It doesn't take a genius to see it's wrong hurt. People who commit crimes know what they're doing is wrong; that's why they hide it. Rapists know they are hurting people when they rape someone; that's why they do it. If you hit someone over the head, would you think that person is hurt? [chuckle]

Anyway, making a crime to do these things really make it tougher for these people to deal with the issue and move on.... It can turn violent...into organized crimes.

 

[Paradon]

Plus even psychopaths has to be emotionally unstable to move up to murder, rape and molestation. When they were kids, they were probably severely emotionally abused in some ways....or even physically abused. These people can't handle mental stress as well as normal people can. They are very narsarcistic; it's like the cancer of the soul.

 

[infinix]

Barkley had problems with the holodeck, yet Worf had no trouble killing aliens in his training sessions. It is quite likely that O'Brien and Bashir killed a few people in their holosuite adventures and they were not affected.

I think the mind has a kind of Off Switch. Most people have it. The rapist, Murderers and others who can't distinguish reality don't have that off switch.

I can understand the example of Worf having created holograms for training purposes. But I don't know if I would call that murder. Worf is acting as a warrior in battle. We don't hold soldiers as murdered for killing their enemies. The same would apply to Bashir and O'Brien's Alamo simulation. They were simulating a battle.

But I draw my line where a situation such as "I create a hologram for the sole purpose so that I can rape/torture/murder that hologram. The hologram serves no other purpose than for me to inflict pain on it."

My scenario is very specific and leaves out possibility of games such as GTA. Meaning that I do not advocate regulating those types of games. Because while there are extremely violent contents within GTA, at least there is some context.

What I have a problem with are games where their only purpose is to indulge in violence and nothing else. Violence without any context has to be regulated. There are some hentai games where the player's only goal is to figure out how to rape as many woman as possible. To me, that is just sick and shouldn't exist at all.

Anyway, making a crime to do these things really make it tougher for these people to deal with the issue and move on.... It can turn violent...into organized crimes.

Plus even psychopaths has to be emotionally unstable to move up to murder, rape and molestation. When they were kids, they were probably severely emotionally abused in some ways....or even physically abused. These people can't handle mental stress as well as normal people can. They are very narsarcistic; it's like the cancer of the soul.

Wait, so let me see if I understand you. Are you suggesting that we should indulge these anti-social behavior on a smaller scale so that they don't escalate into greater crimes? That's a scary thought, ain't it?