Is it ok in the Star Trek Universe...

[XKin]

To insult Ferengi's? Some of which I would say borders on racism. I have heard Kira say things like "Ferengi Toad" and Bashir said something along the same lines (in the mirror universe episode but he is still referring to them nonetheless). And in general it is not rare to here people, humans, Starfleet Officers... to be insulting of Ferengis?

So is it completely ok to insult Ferengis in the Strak Trek Universe?

 

[Borg451]

yes

 

[HRHTheKING]

It's generally done in good humour.


Quark destroyed the arguments against Ferengi in "The Jem Hadar" when talking to Sisko.

 

[Nebusj]

So is it completely ok to insult Ferengis in the Strak Trek Universe?

Well, it would have been a touch odd if someone called Quark, to his face, ``you Klingon accordionist!''

 

[Bill Morris]

Whenever Quark talked about Worf to anyone, he threw in some sort of insult, referring to him as psychopath, etc.

 

[Hofner]

For all we know the Ferengi pronounciation of the word "human" is a racial slur.

Robert

 

[flandry84]

Vulcan-baiting seems to be in too(see Paris/Kim's treatment of Tuvok).

In real life the treatment of Tuvok surprised me seeing as Tim Russ is himself African-American.I'm not American and I'm not looking to start any debate,but it always just seemed very strange to me.

 

[theenglish]

Vulcan-baiting seems to be in too(see Paris/Kim's treatment of Tuvok).

In real life the treatment of Tuvok surprised me seeing as Tim Russ is himself African-American.I'm not American and I'm not looking to start any debate,but it always just seemed very strange to me.

Considering that some serious racism against Vulcans still exists in Voyager's time, the remarks were in bad taste.

The fact that it is "okay" to insult Ferengi in the Trek universe does seem to go against the overall philosophy of IDIC. I have often wondered about this as well.

 

[-Brett-]

It's not like these species, or at least the individuals we see getting insulted, are blameless victims themselves. Quark's had a go at humans more than once. Most Vulcans have shown a degree of racism toward humans as well.

 

[Crewman47]

It kind of makes you wonder what Racism laws exist in the Federation when people like Archer, Trip, Paris, Kim et al can have jibes (albeit sometimes in good taste) at people of other races, namely Vulcans, Klingons (you'd probably not live long though if you racially insulted a Klingon) and Ferengi. Do you think the Federation a more broader version of what we have currently today or will it be more relaxed?

 

[Sephiroth]

i duno, lets go to Ferenginards and find out

 

[Navaros]

Whenever Quark talked about Worf to anyone, he threw in some sort of insult, referring to him as psychopath, etc.

Worf was a psychopath, as evidenced in various different occassions on both TNG and DS9. Nothing wrong with telling the truth. It's not slander if it's true.

Kira's mean-spirited "toad" comments about Quark always rubbed me the wrong way. Highly-inapproriate behaviour. It's not like Quark ever made fun of Kira for having a hideous nose that looks like it lost a fight with a cheese grater. I wonder how she'd feel if he did that.

Ferengi have good reasons to disrespect hewmons. Hewmons disrespect them first, and yet hewmons still have the pompous attitude like they are morally superior. If they were really morally superior, then they wouldn't treat Ferengi in derogatory ways.

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

Reading through this thread (and recalling discussions of McCoy's anti-Vulcan slurs) I am reminded of something Tuvok said in "Flashback"

"Ever since I entered the Academy, I've had to endure the egocentric nature of humanity. You believe that everyone in the galaxy should be like you, that we should all share your sense of humour and your human values."

And judging by humans we see in the various Trek series, I think he has a point. McCoy gets irritated with Spock (and other Vulcans) because he doesn't act human. Well, he's *not* human, why should he act like one? And yes, he is half human, but he chose to live in the Vulcan way.

 

[Timo]

It's not slander if it's true.

What does truth have to do with anything here? If I call you ugly or stupid, it's slander in the practical sense even though it of course is true (by some standards anyway).

The veracity of a claim may matter in a courtroom, but it's not relevant in real life where the spirit of the statement is everything. You could slur by quoting Donald Duck in Sanskrit for all the victim cares, as long as the disrespectful intent gets through.

(From where Worf is looking, most Ferengi, or humans, are lying cowards who don't have an ounce of integrity or an inch of backbone. And that's as true a fact as those get.)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[MisterPL]

So is it completely ok to insult Ferengis in the Strak Trek Universe?

Is it a really big Ferengi and is he faster than me?

 

[JM1776]

What does truth have to do with anything here? If I call you ugly or stupid, it's slander in the practical sense...

No, it's not. It's slander, at most, in the politically correct sense. If someone is ugly or stupid, calling them such may be crass and inappropriate, but it's not slander by any stretch of the legal or sensible imagination.

Truth will out. That doesn't mean you have to rub someone's stupid, ugly face in it.

 

[erastus25]

The Kira thing didn't bother me quite as much because she is not Starfleet and does not really represent humanity at its best. Rather, she represents the tenacity of the human will when faced with oppression - her apparent species-ism seems to be a result of the hardened view of reality she has courtesy of her past. The message is that when faced with incredible adversity, one can overcome but not necessarily without a price to one's humanity.

 

[Timo]

No, it's not. It's slander, at most, in the politically correct sense.

But in practice, it's slander in the "your teeth will be bashed in" sense, too. Courtroom or PC concerns would seem quite secondary in comparison...

It's not up to the slanderer to decide whether he has committed an offense or not. The only one with any authority over that is the victim. If he gives consent, then it wasn't slander. If he gives a left hook, then it was.

Nothing in this world is absolute enough that it could be presented as "truth" in an insulting sentence. To establish something as true, one typically needs at least two shelf-meters of books. And referring to those books after throwing the insult isn't going to help any, as the damage is already done (and the teeth will out).

Timo Saloniemi