Is it just me, or is Star Trek going the wrong way?

[Bad Thoughts]

I wish I could fly through space and explore all the unknown worlds out there, that's why I love star trek! I think they did a good job until they started trying to veer away from the motif set forth by FOUR fully successful and incredibly popular series (TOS, TNG, DS9, and Voyager) What I love the most about the first four series is that they were always exploring new worlds and seeing new things in the universe while they simultaneously told a story arc and it seemed like the writers were genuinely trying to stretch the limits of what people would imagine is possible to exist out among the stars, it made it a truly unique work of video-graphic art.

I would like to think that whenever someone deploys this line of reasoning, that Star Trek is exploration and adventure, that DS9 is somehow included. Arguably, Star Trek is more malleable than the "exploration" paradigm suggests. However, DS9 just doesn't fit. There are maybe a handful of episodes in which the crew encounters a new planet or there is some science to conduct. More often than not, the story is about people interacting with one another. Indeed, there are times that DS9 is barely science fiction, distinguishable from other dramas only because of the setting in space and the presence of alien races.

 

[Nyotarules]

3014 CE a human cyborg uses his telepathic ability to broadcast to the Sol system share your thought network
'Has Star Trek lost its way......again?'

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

Why can't we have Star Trek for a modern audience? If you don't like the CBS shows, there are plenty of other modern TV shows to watch.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Indeed, there are times that DS9 is barely science fiction, distinguishable from other dramas only because of the setting in space and the presence of alien races.

That applies to a lot of Star Trek and Science Fiction in general. The "exploration" aspect of Star Trek is just there to set up the actual plots of the episodes. And a good chunk has very little "exploration".

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

CBS Trek has its exploratory moments. I seem to recall a lot of exploration on Discovery. The Short Treks are mostly to complement DIS. We new going into Picard that this would be more of a drama than adventures exploring the outer fringes of known space. Lower Decks had its own exploratory moments. Discovery's new season should be all exploration, because the crew and audience have found ourselves in an unknown future. Strange New Worlds based on the title alone, should bring Trek back to its traditional format of space exploration.

Why can't we have some variety? Why does it all have to be more of the same?

 

[Lord Garth]

CBS Trek has its exploratory moments. I seem to recall a lot of exploration on Discovery. The Short Treks are mostly to complement DIS. We new going into Picard that this would be more of a drama than adventures exploring the outer fringes of known space. Lower Decks had its own exploratory moments. Discovery's new season should be all exploration, because the crew and audience have found ourselves in an unknown future. Strange New Worlds based on the title alone, should bring Trek back to its traditional format of space exploration.

Why can't we have some variety? Why does it all have to be more of the same?

I'm pretty sure Geoff Peterson a.k.a. Nerys Myk doesn't actually want it all to be the same.

 

[Danja]

I wish I could fly through space and explore all the unknown worlds out there, that's why I love star trek! I think they did a good job until they started trying to veer away from the motif set forth by FOUR fully successful and incredibly popular series (TOS, TNG, DS9, and Voyager)

TOS = Cancelled after three seasons
TNG = Made it to a fourth season by the skin of its teeth ("Best of Both Worlds" was intended to double as a series finale, if need be)
VOY = Stared down cancellation after S3; the coming of Seven of Nine in S4 saved the show


If you think Trek has always been wildly successful, you'd be wrong.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

I'm pretty sure Geoff Peterson a.k.a. Nerys Myk doesn't actually want it all to be the same.

I was responding to the discussion, not any one individual.

 

[fireproof78]

Why does it all have to be more of the same?

Because people hate change. Megaloathe it even.

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[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

Change is good! If people miss old Trek, that's what streaming, DVD, and Blu-ray is for.

 

[fireproof78]

Change is good! If people miss old Trek, that's what streaming, DVD, and Blu-ray is for.

Not everyone wants things to change. Many consider Trek like comfort food and want it to be the same and provide the same warm fuzzy as before.

It is nearly impossible but people want things to last forever.

 

[Oddish]

I prefer the older Trek too. I watched Discovery and Picard, but petered out and am way behind in both. I still stream the older shows most. I do watch Lower Decks, though, because it's like the Spaceballs of Trek.

 

[fireproof78]

I will always prefer TOS.

 

[Danja]

I will always prefer TOS.

"Those Old Scientists"?

 

[fireproof78]

"Those Old Scientists"?

I'm related to old scientists so of course

 

[Imaus]

While I don't care much for any NuTrek, it's mostly just the aesthetics and plotlines that get me. The actors and actresses are nearly all around perfect, they're just being shoved into a stage to read a play I don't care much for.

And whew - (emphasis added) -

I also love how they portrayed humanities future potential in a very positive light, world peace, no more need for currency within our own species, scientific idealism, peaceful cooperation and exploration with the species we meet. Its a refreshing change from the millions of sci-fi stories that believe we are a hopeless species who will only end up killing anything intelligent we find out there. It seems that most authors believe humanity is much closer to the alternate negative dimensions version of events rather than the altruistic peaceful society that The Federation stands for. That's just depressing. If that's true we don't deserve to continue as a species, so I prefer to hope that Star Trek will be a good example of how humanity can still choose to show their best side and save not only our world but ourselves and our future.

Says who? You? What if this universe is just dog-eat-dog, eternal competition? If that's what it takes to survive and propagate our biosphere, so be it. HFY. The scaly, quivering bug uglies are doing it, but we can't? Please.

Though logically the universe is so big, full of planets and systems, and seemingly empty, and life so hypothetically diverse, that direct competition over the basics would be a non-issue anyway, and I am getting more and more suspicious of even ideological competition.

If the tech bar is low enough, - and I mean really low, as in Viable Fusion isn't possible, nor space-warping or even approaching any high amount of C or megastructures, to say nothing of any interstellar travel beyond brute force Fission or brute force antimatter - outright ideological competition becomes near impossible; if the amount of technological civilizations at the same time is also low, it becomes non-existent, if say, there are 100 or 10 or 2 or even 10,000 technological civilizations at once, the 'nearest' could be 50, 100 LY away and we're not going to go past 1Ly, 5LY any damn time soon, that's for sure....

The Federation does get a pass as it's a viable system. But so does the Klingon Empire or the Sheliak or even Borg - after all, they're still around.

I don't agree, either, with this appeal to the 'TRUE FANS GUYS". I'm barely a Trekkie. I can't list off episodes. But Star Trek doesn't belong to some small core group, if Nu Trek really is what sells, then that's the course it'll take. I don't see it becoming "Something it's not", I just don't care much for the stories they do try to sell these days, is all.

 

[BillJ]

TNG = Made it to a fourth season by the skin of its teeth ("Best of Both Worlds" was intended to double as a series finale, if need be)

Yeah... this is just flat wrong. "Best of Both Worlds" was never intended as a series finale, it could've played as a Picard finale due to contract negotiations between the actor and studio. TNG was wildly popular for pretty much the entirety of its run.

 

[Steve Roby]

So, LunaticBurnout's been a fan for thirty years, which puts us back in 1990, the age of The Next Generation. This reminds me of a observation of mine.

I have encountered a lot of fans who got into the show through The Next Generation and completely imprinted on it. That's how Star Trek has to be, and the further it deviates from that norm, the less they like it. (I am NOT talking about everyone who started with TNG, but believe me, this is a recognizable type. And, yes, there are TOS-only people, but I don't run into many of those because they're old and don't tend to hang out at places like this.)

Thirty years ago, usenet newsgroups had a lot of TNG fans who had no use for TOS. It was that cheesy old bundle of cheap campy cliches that they'd never actually watched. And when DS9 came along, they had no use for that, because it wasn't The Next Generation. Again, #NotAllTNGFans, I know. But I remember people who liked both TOS and TNG tended to be more open to DS9. TNG-lovers tended to be less open to it.

And I think this has carried through a strain of Star Trek fandom since then. There are two key types of fans, it seems to me: the ones who see TNG as the platonic ideal of Star Trek, the gold standard, the purest form of the vision. And there are those who see TNG as neither the first nor necessarily the most important Star Trek series. And it's long since stopped surprising me that many of the people who hate the new Trek series are from the first group.

Yes, this is a generalization, no, it doesn't apply to all of you, but it is something I have observed in action many times over the decades.

 

[Alexander Corrino]

So, LunaticBurnout's been a fan for thirty years, which puts us back in 1990, the age of The Next Generation. This reminds me of a observation of mine.

I have encountered a lot of fans who got into the show through The Next Generation and completely imprinted on it. That's how Star Trek has to be, and the further it deviates from that norm, the less they like it. (I am NOT talking about everyone who started with TNG, but believe me, this is a recognizable type. And, yes, there are TOS-only people, but I don't run into many of those because they're old and don't tend to hang out at places like this.)

Thirty years ago, usenet newsgroups had a lot of TNG fans who had no use for TOS. It was that cheesy old bundle of cheap campy cliches that they'd never actually watched. And when DS9 came along, they had no use for that, because it wasn't The Next Generation. Again, #NotAllTNGFans, I know. But I remember people who liked both TOS and TNG tended to be more open to DS9. TNG-lovers tended to be less open to it.

And I think this has carried through a strain of Star Trek fandom since then. There are two key types of fans, it seems to me: the ones who see TNG as the platonic ideal of Star Trek, the gold standard, the purest form of the vision. And there are those who see TNG as neither the first nor necessarily the most important Star Trek series. And it's long since stopped surprising me that many of the people who hate the new Trek series are from the first group.

Yes, this is a generalization, no, it doesn't apply to all of you, but it is something I have observed in action many times over the decades.

I agree with this observation, and I’m obsessed with TNG (but not really much of a Trekkie nor a purist, I didn’t grow up with TNG because I wasn’t interested in it when I was a kid/teenager, which is probably what saves me nowadays from falling down the NOT MY STAR TREK rabbit hole that so many other fans around my age have fallen into).

A lot of this is nostalgia. It’s incredibly powerful. These die hard TNG fans will defend even the most horrible episodes and the most ridiculous things - because it’s TNG. Sex ghost candles? No problem. Crew devolving? No problem. But Jean-Luc being older and NOT the seemingly invincible hero they remember from their childhood??? NOT MY STAR TREK! It’s why they take this all so personally. They feel insulted because to them it feels like as if Trek is taking away the warm fuzzy feelings they had when they watched TNG. Like as if it’s taking away their childhood and replacing it with emotional realism (as much realism as you can get on Trek, of course). It doesn’t matter to them that TNG will always be there. It’s the fact that OTHER and DIFFERENT Trek (most notably PIC) is now there as well that’s bothering them.

 

[Steve Roby]

Speaking of nostalgia, this also ties in with the type of fan who insists that The Orville, a lazily nostalgic and unoriginal TNG knockoff, is real Star Trek but Discovery isn't.