Is it just me, or is Star Trek going the wrong way?

[Agony_Boothb]

It may not be helping the division when any one critical of the shows get their thoughts constantly dismissed by these kind of...almost mantras at this point.

There is a difference between being critical and blind hatred. Being critical means that you can objectively see faults but still see positive attributes of what you are critiquing. Even the worst movie has something positive that a critic can take from it. You can dislike the writing, but think the performances from the actors were on point for example. People don't have to like Discovery, but when you can't say anything good about it and people start throwing words around like 'Dystopia' without understanding what those words mean and furthermore call a female character a narcissist for exhibiting behavior that would be absolutely fine if it was done by a white male character, that's coming from a place of hate and not from an objective viewpoint

And I'm sorry but there is a segment of the fanbase that will blindly hate on anything that doesn't fit with their skewed vision of what Star Trek should be. Fans have been behaving this way since The Motion Picture gave us Klingons with bumpy foreheads. Discovery and Picard are just the latest victims of a segment of possessive fandom who want to gatekeep their safe space and keep it inaccessible to a wider audience.

 

[fireproof78]

My biggest thing is how much Star Trek shows have to fight for their place at the table. Criticism is fine if it is balanced with strengths. But much of the negative comments are looking down on these shows for missing some mark that makes it feel like Star Trek. Since it misses this subjective feel it is regarded as unworthy. And that's not a level playing field for discussion.

 

[Steve Roby]

It may not be helping the division when any one critical of the shows get their thoughts constantly dismissed by these kind of...almost mantras at this point.

I rarely see anyone say, you know, the new shows just don’t work for me, I think I’ll get on with my life. I don’t have a problem if someone points out that the changes behind the scenes seemed to cause some continuity glitches here and there, or point out that the early Disco episodes had pacing problems whenever there were big Klingon scenes because of the combination of Klingon dialogue and the makeup and dental appliances made them talk too damn slow. There are always legitimate criticisms that can be made.

BUT.

What I mainly see is, this is garbage and it should die in a fire and no real Star Trek fan could possibly like this shit and everyone involved with it needs to be fired and it’s all this stupid woke shit being shoved down my throat and we need to bring back TNG-style Star Trek because the new shows have none of the values that Star Trek is about and it’s just so dark and Gene Roddenberry is spinning in his grave and this is not real Star Trek.

And you know what? I will continue to happily dismiss those “thoughts.”

 

[F. King Daniel]

Nowadays people can comment on the toilet with their phones, as I am doing now. I don't need to write a letter and affix a stamp, and hope some editor at a magazine or fanzine prints me. So it's fair to say the current toxic culture has a lot to do with accessibility, and the ease of which malcontents can immerse themselves in what they hate.

It's just a lot of noise and a few people making money from YouTube (who probably don't even hate the shows like they claim to, I wish I'd thought of it). If someone shoots up comicon because of Star Trek/Batman/Marvel/Luke Skywalker/whatever, then it becomes a serious problem.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Nowadays people can comment on the toilet with their phones, as I am doing now. I don't need to write a letter and affix a stamp, and hope some editor at a magazine or fanzine prints me. So it's fair to say the current toxic culture has a lot to do with accessibility, and the ease of which malcontents can immerse themselves in what they hate.

It's just a lot of noise and a few people making money from YouTube (who probably don't even hate the shows like they claim to, I wish I'd thought of it). If someone shoots up comicon because of Star Trek/Batman/Marvel/Luke Skywalker/whatever, then it becomes a serious problem.

Now I know at 16:05 Australian Eastern Standard time another trek fan on the other side of the world was taking a dump.

The Internet is truly marvelous.

 

[The Old Mixer]

McCartney is the king of lightweight pop.

Brother, I can smell your feet a mile away.

Nowadays people can comment on the toilet with their phones, as I am doing now.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Mudd]

I rarely see anyone say, you know, the new shows just don’t work for me...

You know, Picard sort of works for me because the writing for the characters was sometimes good although the overall story arc fell apart badly at the end.

You know, STD doesn't work for me because nine out of ten of the episodes I've seen are amateurishly written, ranging from mediocre to atrocious, and so much of the design was unimaginative and dull. Good actors can't make up for that.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Brother, I can smell your feet a mile away.

 

[cooleddie74]

Write Section 31 and the AI/Control stuff out of DSC and the series gets a lot better by default.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Also Mirror Universe.

Of course then there'd be nothing left.

 

[cooleddie74]

DSC: good concept, wrong time period and largely bad writing.

 

[fireproof78]

DSC: good concept, wrong time period and largely bad writing.

Poorly handled in the BTS. Consistent production team makes all the difference.

 

[CorporalClegg]

DSC: good concept, wrong time period and largely bad writing.

The sad thing is it didn't have to be. I mean just imagine some simple changes:

Season one is just about how Lorca is just a good-intentioned hardass commander who suffered too much loss and begins to helplessly side down a steep slippery slope of jingoistic hate.

In season two Control is just Skynet and Mama Burnham is Joe Morton. She created the red angel to find some McGuffin to destroy it, but in turn only made the situation worse.

Season three is the real kicker because of how obvious it should have been. Despite centuries of warnings by top scientists, there was never any attempt to find new propulsion systems because clashing ideologies or self-interested government agendas and even people clinging to what they know and refusal to embrace change always got in the way. And in one last ditch effort to preserve their way of life they instead cause an existential ecological disaster.

It's like the most Star Trekkiest thing that has ever Star Trekked. And instead we got pre-teen has temper tantrum.

 

[cooleddie74]

Yeah, DSC is the biggest missed opportunity in the history of the franchise. Far more than any lost potential ENT had.

 

[fireproof78]

Yeah, DSC is the biggest missed opportunity in the history of the franchise. Far more than any lost potential ENT had.

Eh, ST 09 was more so, in my opinion. DSC definitely struggled but it at least kept the franchise going. Kelvin languished far more.

 

[Mudd]

The sad thing is it didn't have to be. I mean just imagine some simple changes:

Season one is just about how Lorca is just a good-intentioned hardass commander who suffered too much loss and begins to helplessly side down a steep slippery slope of jingoistic hate.

Man, that's grown-up shit. They'd have needed new writers.

 

[Amaris]

Yeah, DSC is the biggest missed opportunity in the history of the franchise. Far more than any lost potential ENT had.

I like Discovery, and my list of favorite characters has grown: Michael, Tilly, Saru, Adira, Hugh, Jett, I mean these are really interesting people (IMO), and I'm invested in their growth and well-being. That being said, the show itself isn't my favorite by a long shot. Everyone speaks like everything they're about to do is super epic (Michael's dialogue is the worst for this), and I feel like they go big just to go big and build the story around something big. Some of my favorite episodes of Star Trek occurred in a bottle, affected very few people, or only involved a few people. We really don't *always* have to have a big bad universe killer. We really don't.

I *am* looking forward to Star Trek: Strange New Worlds really piques my interest, as I've always wanted to see Pike's storyline, but at the same time I kind of wonder whether or not they'll follow the same formula they have with Discovery, and I sincerely hope not.

That's why I like Star Trek: Lower Decks. It's about a crew of genuinely good hearted, well intentioned fuck ups, who try to put their best foot forward, and end up breaking both legs. I strongly identify with that sentiment.

Anyway, back to Discovery: It started out on the wrong foot for me in the very beginning. Lorca's character saved it for me (along with, obviously, Tilly) up until the ending where they dropped the ball. Like most people I got excited (new Star Trek series after 13 years!), but the newness wore off. I haven't watched the first season since, and I really have no desire to do so, even though I'm always up to watch season 1 of TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT, and Lower Decks. Picard's first season is good, though the end of season 1 makes me "feh" inside, because things are different now. Even if they look the same they're different, I know they're different, and I won't un-know it.

I'd like to see Trek move away from that, and more towards the strong positivity, and bright future where mankind hasn't destroyed themselves, and people don't have to die from preventable issues because of a system that purposely creates scarcity. More of that, less grit. A LOT less grit, honestly.

I'll say what I've said for years: DS9 had the right amount of darkness and grit but also silliness, fun, and lighthearted optimism to balance it out. We don't have to reproduce DS9, but some of those themes should make a renewed appearance, again, all in my opinion.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Eh, ST 09 was more so, in my opinion. DSC definitely struggled but it at least kept the franchise going. Kelvin languished far more.

How is $470m and a 94% on RT a missed opportunity?

 

[cooleddie74]

DS9's genius was that it could have an episode where Starfleet officers die in large numbers in a Dominion assault one week and Sisko and his officers have to deal with those casualties and the next week we get a Ferengi comedy episode where the focus is on being fun and entertaining. DS9 and TOS struck that balance. The other series less so. We need both the dark and the light to make a great Trek.

 

[fireproof78]

"Need" eh?