Is Data's head still under San Francisco?

[Temis the Vorta]

Data's head didn't spontaneously spring into existence in 1893. He was created in the 24th Century by Dr. Soong. Since we know that the 23rd Century is already rather different than the Prime Universe, we have no guarantees that the 24th will be anything like what we've seen before. Therefore, no Data is a distinct possibility.

I wasn't trying to belittle you, and I'm not now, either - I don't care that much. But if you want to grok why I'm still going to say that I think you are incorrect, read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation

We've had this debate before. There's no way for the characters to know whether the situation is that the prime and Abrams universes existed in parallel for eons before Nero caused them to vary (or possibly there were variations even before that); or whether Nero created a branch off the prime universe that did not previously exist.

However, my hunch is that the writers intend the latter branching interpretation. And in practical reality, the explanation doesn't matter because any pre-Nero differences will never be part of the storyline so they may as not even exist.

 

[Set Harth]

Doesn't this issue come down to the question of which mode of time travel
( MWI or single-timeline ) is assumed from NuTrek's perspective to have been in effect during Time's Arrow?

 

[Mr Silver]

Doesn't this issue come down to the question of which mode of time travel
( MWI or single-timeline ) is assumed from NuTrek's perspective to have been in effect during Time's Arrow?

I think of it as being the method that propelled the USS Defiant into the MU of the past. Nero and Spock were propelled into the past of a different brand of MU, where the people aren't all psychos, but there are definitely differences.

 

[DonIago]

I find it amusing when people refer to the MU as though there's something unique about it compared to any other alternate timeline, beyond simply being one that has, perhaps (no way to know since people weren't checking quantum signatures AFAWK) had more interaction with the Primeverse than any other.

 

[Mr Silver]

I find it amusing when people refer to the MU as though there's something unique about it compared to any other alternate timeline, beyond simply being one that has, perhaps (no way to know since people weren't checking quantum signatures AFAWK) had more interaction with the Primeverse than any other.

Well its unique in comparison to the main trek timeline because many events that occured were complete opposites. Look at First Contact in the MU, Zephram Cochrane decided to shoot the first Vulcan, reasoning that it was an alien invasion. In "Mirror, Mirror" in the main trek universe, Kirk and co accepted the Halkan's decision, in the MU the Halkan's came to the same decision, but Mirror Kirk was ordered to use force. DS9 in the MU was a mining space station run by the alliance of Klingons, Cardassians and Bajorans using Terrans as slaves, whilst in the main trek universe it was a mining station run by the Cardassians using Bajorans as slaves.

Most mirror universe inhabitants are completely opposite in personality to their main universe counterparts. Brunt was actually a resonably nice guy in the mirror universe whereas Kira was a sociopathic slave master.

 

[P0sitr0nic]

Datas head is there, but it has blue eyes and when he looks at you, you see lens flares.

 

[Set Harth]

Doesn't this issue come down to the question of which mode of time travel
( MWI or single-timeline ) is assumed from NuTrek's perspective to have been in effect during Time's Arrow?

Actually, I take that back because it wouldn't matter, though upon closer inspection it looks like single-timeline... so I guess there's a head under there.

 

[DonIago]

I find it amusing when people refer to the MU as though there's something unique about it compared to any other alternate timeline, beyond simply being one that has, perhaps (no way to know since people weren't checking quantum signatures AFAWK) had more interaction with the Primeverse than any other.

Well its unique in comparison to the main trek timeline because many events that occured were complete opposites. Look at First Contact in the MU, Zephram Cochrane decided to shoot the first Vulcan, reasoning that it was an alien invasion. In "Mirror, Mirror" in the main trek universe, Kirk and co accepted the Halkan's decision, in the MU the Halkan's came to the same decision, but Mirror Kirk was ordered to use force. DS9 in the MU was a mining space station run by the alliance of Klingons, Cardassians and Bajorans using Terrans as slaves, whilst in the main trek universe it was a mining station run by the Cardassians using Bajorans as slaves.

Most mirror universe inhabitants are completely opposite in personality to their main universe counterparts. Brunt was actually a resonably nice guy in the mirror universe whereas Kira was a sociopathic slave master.

Right, but that just makes it an extreme example of how events can diverge, it doesn't make the MU somehow distinct from other alternate timelines in principle.

 

[Set Harth]

Or maybe it just spontaneously disappeared because of whatever imaginary law of time presides over such matters once Nero changed things.

I'm not so sure there is any such law of time where the red matter black hole time travel of STXI is concerned, since that time travel is intended to follow branching theory. But then again that could be why you called it "imaginary"...

 

[Mr Silver]

Right, but that just makes it an extreme example of how events can diverge, it doesn't make the MU somehow distinct from other alternate timelines in principle.

So what would make it distinct?

 

[USS Triumphant]

Right, but that just makes it an extreme example of how events can diverge, it doesn't make the MU somehow distinct from other alternate timelines in principle.

So what would make it distinct?

If Q or someone similar were to reveal somehow that the MU was not, in fact, a divergent timeline along the lines of the Many Worlds interpretation of QM, but was instead the completely separate creation of a malevolent being. Like "the Devil" trying to prove he could match "God", or something. I also think this would be pretty dumb, unless done extraordinarily well.

 

[DonIago]

Or if it was established that there was an explicit connection between the MU and the Primeverse that didn't exist between Prime and any other AU. Some people seem to feel the MU is somehow "special" relative to other AU's, but I don't believe there's any evidence to support this theory.

 

[CaptainStoner]

Data's head is under J.J. Abrams desk.
Now get your minds out of the gutter.

 

[Mr Silver]

Or if it was established that there was an explicit connection between the MU and the Primeverse that didn't exist between Prime and any other AU. Some people seem to feel the MU is somehow "special" relative to other AU's, but I don't believe there's any evidence to support this theory.

I don't think its that special either, but it is special in the sense that the occupants of both the PU (prime universe) and the MU are aware of each other and don't mind interfering in each other's timelines. It started chronologically when MU Archer used a starship from the PU in an attempt to take control of the Empire. Kirk from the PU then influenced Spock from the MU to move forward in bringing radical changes to the MU. Skip ahead to DS9 where Regent Worf from the MU captures a member of the PU in an attempt to get his hands on a cloaking device. Heck you even have Sisko from the PU impersonating his MU counterpart.

The JJ-Verse is very different, with the only known influences being the appearance and subsequent attacks by Nero. Prime Spock did give Scotty his "transwarp formula" but since Scotty would eventually discover it himself, there was no harm done (technology appeared considerably more advanced in this universe than in the PU of the same timeframe anyway). As for Prime Spock revealing himself to Spock, nothing would happen, since this timeline was different anyway, any "spoilers" Prime Spock may reveal, would have no effect.

 

[Set Harth]

Data's head is under J.J. Abrams desk.

If J.J. Abrams is based in San Francisco... yes, it is.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Actually Data's head was last seen on a pole in the Borg Queen's lair in Voyager's "Unimatrix Zero"
[/trivia]

 

[Phily B]

I personally like the idea that everything still happens, people are still born etc. I still think the Enterprise-D will be around in a 100 years with Picard on board. The time line repairs itself. That's sort of how the Mirror Universe worked too. Though with Vulcan destroyed, it obviously can't be perfect - but Vulcan wasn't a huge part of TNG was it?

 

[USS Triumphant]

but Vulcan wasn't a huge part of TNG was it?

Only if you consider the votes of and resources and personnel contributed by one of the Federation's founding worlds over the course of over a century "not a huge part". Every TNG series (TNG, DS9, Voyager) had at least one significant Vulcan character (recurring or otherwise) and a bunch of them roaming around in the background.

Personally, I believe it would be extremely significant, causing vast changes. That doesn't mean that there might not still be an Enterprise with a Captain Picard and many of the same crew - Yesterday's Enterprise showed us that there does seem to be some sort of resiliance for the status quo as we know it in Star Trek, even when timelines change - but I would still expect major differences, too.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Data's head didn't spontaneously spring into existence in 1893. He was created in the 24th Century by Dr. Soong. Since we know that the 23rd Century is already rather different than the Prime Universe, we have no guarantees that the 24th will be anything like what we've seen before. Therefore, no Data is a distinct possibility.

I wasn't trying to belittle you, and I'm not now, either - I don't care that much. But if you want to grok why I'm still going to say that I think you are incorrect, read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation

I see you and raise: http://www.explosm.net/comics/949/

 

[USS Triumphant]

I see you and raise: http://www.explosm.net/comics/949/

- But I hardly think that counts as a serious rebuttal.