Is Data's head still under San Francisco?

[USS Triumphant]

The two timelines do not diverge until well after 1893 (even under my (crackpot?) theory that the divergence started in 2063 with the events of Star Trek: First Contact). So is Data's head - the head of a Data that served on the Prime timeline Enterprise-D - still under San Francisco, as shown in the TNG episode "Time's Arrow"? Pretty screwed up if it is, but I can't think of a good reason why it would not be.

 

[Dukhat]

I would think that it would be, too. However, now it's unlikely that it will ever be found, since in this new timeline Data may not exist (or at least exist at the point where he orignally went back in time).

Or maybe it just spontaneously disappeared because of whatever imaginary law of time presides over such matters once Nero changed things. If there was no Data to go back in time, then his head shouldn't exist even in the shared past.

I'm already getting a headache. Where's the Tylenol?

 

[F. King Daniel]

It should be, yes. In the same way Nero and Spock Prime still existed in alternate-2258 despite massive disruption to the timeline, Data's head should be in the 18th century.

In that same way, Kirk and Spock should also be in 1987 San Fransisco, looking for whales, and Picard and Riker in 2063 stopping the Borg. Think that's crazy? There were two Captain Braxtons in "Future's End", from different version of the 29th century. Same thing. Tasha Yar lived and had a daughter after altering history going back to Nerendra III. She's from a different future to TNG, but she never ceased to exist. Data came back from a different branch of the future to nuKirk and co's and left his head in the past. Simlar thing again. Travellers from alternate branches of the future affecting a common past.

 

[Saul]

But Trek 2009 is an alternate timeline. The other cases are of travellers from an alternate timeline surviving in the timeline we know and love.

 

[F. King Daniel]

But Trek 2009 is an alternate timeline. The other cases are of travellers from an alternate timeline surviving in the timeline we know and love.

Infinite timelines exist concurrently, branching for every possible outcome of every event anywhere, ever. As we saw in "Parallels". Only our point of view changes. In "Shockwave" we saw the 31st century if Archer never founded the Federation. In "Yesterday's Enterprise" we saw the 24th century if the Enterprise-C was never sacrificed to save the Klingons. In TOS, we saw how history would turn out if Nero never appeared in 2233.

See what I mean?

 

[Temis the Vorta]

That means there's a reality where Data's head is buried in my back yard.

Be back in a sec...

 

[F. King Daniel]

^Be careful, in this reality it could be Robot Hitler's head.

 

[USS Triumphant]

It should be, yes. In the same way Nero and Spock Prime still existed in alternate-2258 despite massive disruption to the timeline, Data's head should be in the 18th century.

In that same way, Kirk and Spock should also be in 1987 San Fransisco, looking for whales, and Picard and Riker in 2063 stopping the Borg. Think that's crazy? There were two Captain Braxtons in "Future's End", from different version of the 29th century. Same thing. Tasha Yar lived and had a daughter after altering history going back to Nerendra III. She's from a different future to TNG, but she never ceased to exist. Data came back from a different branch of the future to nuKirk and co's and left his head in the past. Simlar thing again. Travellers from alternate branches of the future affecting a common past.

All true, and I just realized that also means that Quark, Rom, and Odo were still the Roswell aliens, the Prime-Enterprise-1701 was in the sky in the nuUniverse 1960s, Sisko and company were still in the Bell Riots, and the Chronoworx events from Voyager still occurred, too.

The nuTimeline has the Prime one all up in its biz-ness.

 

[Cadet49]

I would think that it would be, too. However, now it's unlikely that it will ever be found, since in this new timeline Data may not exist (or at least exist at the point where he orignally went back in time).

Or maybe it just spontaneously disappeared because of whatever imaginary law of time presides over such matters once Nero changed things. If there was no Data to go back in time, then his head shouldn't exist even in the shared past.

I'm already getting a headache. Where's the Tylenol?

This might be a great storyline for the new comic book series set in the new reality, that is starting in September ... imagine if they found Data's head from the Prime universe!

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I say no. Since the future in this new timeline is unwritten, we don't even know if there will be a Data in the 24th Century.

 

[Mr Silver]

Who says that the original timeline had any impact on the alternate one? For all we know, the alternate timeline could have existed as one of those parallel universes like the mirror one seen in TOS,DS9 and ENT. The only impact that occured was Nero's appearance. (and to a lesser degree the appearance of Spock)

This timeline could be one where there was no Khan or Augments, no WW3 and therefore technology was gradually advanced further to the point where a 23rd century starship would not be immediately obliterated by a souped up late 24th century juggernaught like the Narada. In this timeline, Arik Soong may not have been a criminal and instead stayed as a respected scientist. He may have had no interest in Positronics and therefore his family line would not have bothered to carry on his work. Noonien Soong might have just been a simple scientist working on a colony with no desire to move into cybernetics. And therefore Data would never have been created.

Or simply put, the Aliens that caused the temporal anomaly in "Times Arrow", stayed away from 19th century Earth in the JJ-Verse, thus warranting no reason for the Ent-D crew to investigate.

 

[USS Triumphant]

I say no. Since the future in this new timeline is unwritten, we don't even know if there will be a Data in the 24th Century.

There doesn't need to be. There already was, and still will be - in the other branch of the divergence that resulted from Nero's arrival. Rewatch the final episode of TNG. I don't think you've grasped what Q was getting at.

For all we know, the alternate timeline could have existed as one of those parallel universes like the mirror one seen in TOS,DS9 and ENT.

This is a much better point. If they don't actually share a common past, but merely have an extremely similar one, then you would be correct. It isn't what the last movie implied was going on, but then again, they couldn't really know, could they?

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I say no. Since the future in this new timeline is unwritten, we don't even know if there will be a Data in the 24th Century.

There doesn't need to be. There already was, and still will be - in the other branch of the divergence that resulted from Nero's arrival. Rewatch the final episode of TNG. I don't think you've grasped what Q was getting at.

My comprehension's fine, thanks. You asked for my opinion & I gave it. Not my fault if you don't agree with my answer.

Data's head didn't spontaneously spring into existence in 1893. He was created in the 24th Century by Dr. Soong. Since we know that the 23rd Century is already rather different than the Prime Universe, we have no guarantees that the 24th will be anything like what we've seen before. Therefore, no Data is a distinct possibility.

But since we know that Data's buried head didn't affect anything until the 24th Century anyway, it's all a moot point.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Of course it is.

 

[USS Triumphant]

Data's head didn't spontaneously spring into existence in 1893. He was created in the 24th Century by Dr. Soong. Since we know that the 23rd Century is already rather different than the Prime Universe, we have no guarantees that the 24th will be anything like what we've seen before. Therefore, no Data is a distinct possibility.

I wasn't trying to belittle you, and I'm not now, either - I don't care that much. But if you want to grok why I'm still going to say that I think you are incorrect, read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation

 

[-Brett-]

Star Trek has always approached alternate timelines/universes with a wink and a nudge. No matter how different things are, the same sperm and the same egg will always meet up to make a counterpart for almost everyone we knew in the original timeline/universe. I say NuData will eventually be built, go back in time, lose his head, go forward in time again to be reunited with it. It's now his head under San Francisco.

 

[Oso Blanco]

I say no. Since the future in this new timeline is unwritten, we don't even know if there will be a Data in the 24th Century.

There was a Data in the original 24th century, and he lost his head in the past. The same past that nuTrek comes from. It's a different future, but the same past. The situation is similar to alternate Tasha Yar going back to a common past and having a child which still exists in the original timeline.

 

[David cgc]

The situation is similar to alternate Tasha Yar going back to a common past and having a child which still exists in the original timeline.

Or the time-travellers from mutually exclusive futures that we saw in pretty much all of the twenty-fourth century shows. Old Alexander will still have come back from the future to change history, even if present Alexander, when he reaches that point in his life, decides not to go back in time. Or, for something even closer to the topic, the Doctor still gets his mobile emitter from the 29th century whether or not Future-Janeway popped back in time to get Voyager home earlier, even though those two timelines probably ended up with different 29th centuries, and whether or not Braxton was locked up for crimes he was going to commit before he could start the whole mess in the first place.

That's just how time travel works in Star Trek. If someone comes back in time from the future, there's no guarantee that you'll end up in their future when the time comes. Maybe they changed something, maybe it was just sheer dumb luck.

Of course, this also goes both ways. If the ST09 characters ever go back in time to before 2233, they'll be part of the Prime Universe's history. Unless they do a different version of something the Prime characters did, like meet Edith Keeler or Captain Christopher. Then things get really weird.

 

[DonIago]

Whether or not Data's head is there depends on whether or not you believe the situation to be a predestination paradox.

This is nothing compared to the question of whether NuKirk can receive PrimeKirk's glasses.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

^Be careful, in this reality it could be Robot Hitler's head.

In which case, I'm blaming Bender.