Is Data being patronised?

Recently rewatched the beginning of The Offspring in which Data creates Lal, his "child". In it, amongst Picard's very first reactions are that he would like to have been consulted and 'What you have done will have serious ramifications. I am truly dismayed that you told no one of what you were doing. '. Data's general response to that is that he has seen no one else consulting the captain regarding their procreation.

So I was wondering ... does captain Picard react differently to Data? Suppose it had been Riker (or Geordi) creating Lal in his free time (not that I can see Riker doing it, but that's a different issue), would Picard have reacted the same?

(I could imagine Picard reacting more strongly to Data trying to adopt a human boy than to other crewmembers doing that, though, because he would probably believe Data would not be the best "parent" for a human child).

 

I never cared much for Picard's reaction. Yes, bringing another sentient android into the world is a big deal, but as someone who argued for Data's rights as a person you'd think Picard would react a little more favorably to Data's right to procreate in privacy.

But he was caught off-guard I guess. It happens.

 

To Picard's credit, he knows Data is a super intelligent super-strong being who has the potential to change the world.

But I suspect he might have simply been reacting as a surrogate father to Data.

 

It's a valid point, that Picard should probably be more considerate, as he would with other crew members, but the thing to remember here is that nobody knows better than Picard what's at stake whenever android rights are at the forefront of an issue

His reaction is based on the fact that, while he'd like to treat Data as any other crew member, in this situation, history has bore out that Data is clearly facing a struggle in Starfleet that none of his other crew members face.

Frankly, I'm not saying he needed permission, but given the history of android rights, Data probably should have at least mentioned it people, so to prepare everyone who might have to be in his corner once again. After all, while they all surely consider Data an equal, none of them have ever had to have an official court case made over the status of their personhood.

That in and of itself is reason enough for more precautions to be taken, that might otherwise be considered unfair. I get where Picard is coming from. Of course Data is not lesser, but he has been made an exception more than once in his time in Starfleet already. It stands to reason you might want to tread lightly, in that position.

That said, nothing should ever have dissuaded him from creating & raising his own descendents, regardless. Just be smart.

 

Perhaps because Data felt he should have the right to procreate he also felt he should have the right to not tell people he intended to do so? In other words, he considered telling others but felt he had the right to treat this as a private situation? Or maybe even that this might be a bit of an object lesson to them.

 

And no one should dispute that. He DOES have that right, just like anybody else. However, he is also the only person we know of in Starfleet history who has had a court case disputing his personhood & individual liberty. Therefore it should always be in the back of everyone's mind, especially his, how anything that involves his status, free will, liberty, or actions will be reacted to. Picard knows this better than most, & while Data has a right to privacy, he also has friends among that crew, who if he trusts them & hopes to count on them when the chips are down, then it's in his best interest to tell those friends, so they can help him if & when it becomes necessary. No one has to tell anyone they are having a baby either, but people do... all the time, because it is worthwhile to do so in social circles, & would've been doubly so for Data & his offspring in their unique circumstance

 

Perhaps this was a case where the "android rights" Data took precedence over the "I value my friends" Data. But it's hard to believe this wouldn't have occurred to him.

 

Data had the right to share or not his plans for parenthood. Just like any other parent in the world, he exercised that right and I fail to see why he should be held to a different standard. He is either a sentient being with all due rights or he is not. He chose to keep it to himself for his own reasons, just like a human might do.

 

And I don't disagree with that sentiment, but what you fail to see is that Data is more troubled than any other potential parent, in that he faces opposition to his status as a free being, & as unfair as that is, it ought to still be a consideration in his thought process whenever he takes on a challenge like this

Look at it like this. No one should ever think that a person's race ought to hold any influence over whether a person might be good at a job, when they apply for one, but because that terribly unfair reality exists, people of certain races might have to keep that in the back of their mind when they do so (Despite how unfair that is) For if they allow themselves to be naïve about it, they open themselves up to abuse.

For his own protection & that of his offspring, he ought to have been more proactive in realizing he might face the very kind of opposition that he ends up facing (Which wasn't going away easily, had Lal lived) This is why Picard is "Truly dismayed" Because Data should know enough to know that such prejudice against him exists, & he should also be just as aware that he has a very supportive friend group who, even though he shouldn't be expected or required to confide in, he should value doing so freely, because of the benefit to him.

Consider the next time he does something bold like this, when he begins a romantic relationship with a human woman. He literally goes to every single one of his comrades for advice (Maybe he's learned to value that asset more by then) How many people would literally go to everyone they know to ask if they should start dating someone? Not many, but then again Data is not like most people, & therefore, it's to his advantage to get feedback on bold decisions like this. It's not mandatory, any more than it should be of anyone else, but it is wise. It wasn't wrong of Data to keep Lal a secret. It was unwise of him to do it

 

If my coworker came to me one day and told me he watched a pot boil 127 times, and said things like "I am attempting to fill a silent moment with nonrelevant conversation," and "My hair does not require trimming, you lunkhead," I would seriously question his fitness for parenting too.

 

I don't fail to see it, I just personally feel differently about it. For me, he either has all the same rights as we do or he may as well have none of them. Yes, I know we're talking about how he does have the right to do whatever he wants but some say he should still be more mindful of how things will play out, talk to his friends about it, don't be so naive...

My stance is that it is his absolute right not to do any of those things. He should be able to make the same mistakes any other person can regardless of the bigger situation. To tell or not tell, to ask or not ask, with all the peaks and pitfalls the choice might entail. If Data having a child has huge ramifications so be it.

 

Speaking as a gay man...if I was closeted but fell in love and got married, resulting in my sexual preference becoming public knowledge, and any friend said "Of course you have the right to get married, but I'm 'truly dismayed' that you didn't talk to me about it before making the decision," I'd have to question just how much this friend really understood or respected my situation.

I suppose I could instead use a scenario in which I decided to adopt, but perhaps that would be a bit too on the nose?

I rather think Picard's supposed to prefigure the reaction that we'll get from Haftel later.

 

Data probably ought to be patronized. Just like Nog, he comes from a species that isn't a UFP member, after all. Heck, even the fully human Kirk apparently needed patronizing from Mallory's dad.

Sisko helped Nog in; who would patronize Data, back in those days?

Timo Saloniemi

 

I would agree, except in Data's case there is evidence here that he might not understand the scope of his actions. For example, if in your example you also had a social disorder, like Aspergers or Autism to some degree, & your friend thought you might not be fully prepared for the choice you made, based on your history with having difficulty understanding much about social interaction, I really don't think it's as inappropriate to express what Picard did. He cares about Data, as your friend would care about you, and be worried for you. Is it right or preferable that this should be the case? No, but there's valid reasoning behind it, with good intention.

I get that, but see above point. Data often needs help with social relations & understanding people & the effects he has on them etc...

 

This will probably be an unpopular opinion, especially among American parents, but having a child is never a purely personal matter. You are not merely "exercising your rights", you are creating a whole new being who will have rights of his own. Outside of the modern Western (or Westernized) experience, consultation and advice with loved ones regarding whether and when to have a child was almost necessary, since others would be heavily involved in rearing a child. A new mouth to feed was a huge, if welcome, familial and communal burden. (We still rely on our society to raise our child, through public school and the like; we just tend to be less grateful).

Beyond the fact that pregnancy and childbirth affects other people, the manner and time in which someone chooses to have a baby will affect that baby's life to a great extent. Statistics show, for instance, that being born to a teenage mother, or not having a father around, drastically increase the chances that a young man will go onto rape, murder, or commit other violent crimes. They weren't born more "evil", but the circumstances of their birth can have a highly negative lifelong effect. I have a young cousin who is in no way financially or emotionally ready to have a child of her own. If she suddenly said she was going to artificially inseminate herself, I would have no problem telling her what a bad idea that was. If she went through with the decision without telling any of her family, we would rightly be "dismayed".

All that being said, Data is making a monumental decision by suddenly creating another android. Data's own personhood and legal status as an individual are often portrayed as controversial and not fully settled; the creation of other sentient beings will require, at the very least, a new legal framework to accommodate non-biological lifeforms. This isn't a reason why Data shouldn't create Lal, but it's certainly a reason why he should have consulted and and taken counsel from the people who care about him and who can advocate for him or Lal.

In addition, Lal was highly experimental technology, and there was no telling what could happen or go wrong with her. For Data to work on her all by himself was highly irresponsible, and in fact, the end result was the creation of a feeling, sentient being who shortly thereafter malfunctioned and "died". To use a real life example, even if you're illogically touchy about parenthood rights (they're MUH kidz) and don't want anyone giving you advice, you at least owe it to your kid to consult with a doctor and not pass on congenital birth defects, if that's within your means.

TLDR: If Picard loves and cares about his friend, there's no reason for him not to offer his honest, well-intentioned advice on the subject of childbirth, UNLESS he has reason to think his friend will take undue offense. Data has no emotions and wouldn't or shouldn't take offense. Data does compare himself to other crewmates in response to Picard's "dismay", but this comparison is unfounded. Lal's creation was much more risky and problematic than someone giving birth with all of the Federation's medical resources and societal safety nets. Data SHOULD have talked about this with his friends, and gotten their advice; it could have helped to avoid Lal's tragedy.

 

I think for me a large part of it is the tone of Picard's reaction. He could have gone for "Data, this is extraordinary, and I hope it will turn out for the best...but as your commanding officer, and given that you're an artificial lifeform that some in Starfleet are still coming to terms with..."

Instead he uses the phrase 'truly dismayed' among other things that make it sound like he doubts that Data even has the right to "procreate". Now, maybe he was just too shocked to choose his words as carefully as he might have, but he doesn't ever apologize for his initial reaction either (that I recall).

As I said, as a narrative device it's a great prefiguring of how Haftel will later react, but from Picard himself I might have expected something a little less condemning.

 

Without a doubt, Picard responds differently, in a way that I do not believe was meant to be bigoted, in the story. It's more to emphasise Data's differences, as a character. Whenever Data does anything that Humans would do, no matter how stupid a function, TNG always had to make a fuss over it. Data's attempts to mimic laughter, for example, or that time he "grew" a beard. None of this "Human" behavior means spit to me, I couldn't care less about it, honestly. Not so with his crewmates, on the show. They've always patronised Data, whenever he's attempted expressing himself in an "organism" kind of way. So, to have Data "reproduce" couldn't have been met in an "Oh! That's cool" way, either. The point of it had to be belaboured and examined and explained in ways that were not less cringe-worthy than any of his other explorations into "what it means to be Human." If Data does it, the crew has to respond to it in a way that's exaggerated for entertainment purposes. So, I wouldn't judge The Good Captain too harshly -- it's only to be expected. Writing 3 pages of a script centered around Data's mimicking sneezing and why people do it is easy money. Even I could write that shite in my sleep ...

 

Picard didn't equate sexual reproduction with building another android, but when Data pointed out the similarity he thought about it and realized he had a good point. You can't control your instinctual emotional reactions to things.

 

Well... if a serving military member becomes pregnant, they are expected to let their superiors know within a reasonable amount of time. This is kind of the same thing, as he is creating a new "lifeform" on board the ship.

 

...and I'm sure if Starfleet has such regulations then he followed them.

But when exactly did Data become pregnant? Lal wasn't finalized when he shared her with the crew, so one could argue she hadn't been "born" yet.