Is Countdown the TATV of Harold?

[GHS]

I'm beginning to view Countdown much as I did "These Are The Voyages" as and ending - poor execution of some cool concepts.

On TATV, I didn't so much mind the death of Trip, but the idea that the crewman everyone most trusted was a character we'd never seen in 4 seasons I could not buy. Also, although the tie-in to "Pegasus" was cool, I don't see how the events of TATV helped Riker figure anything out - he might as well have spent the time watching Washington cross the Deleware.

To the extent that Countdown is the climax for all of Harold, I think it falls into the same category: some good ideas mixed with bad ideas, and uneven execution. And the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that's going to be Countdown's place in Star Trek's legacy: the thing everyone wishes they could go back and do over.

 

[StCoop]

To the extent that Countdown is the climax for all of Harold...

It isn't.

IDW have already announced they're publishing a follow-up story to it.

 

[Christopher]

To the extent that Countdown is the climax for all of Harold...

It isn't.

IDW have already announced they're publishing a follow-up story to it.

Actually they're publishing a prequel to it, showing how Spock got to the point where he was in Countdown.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

There's a prequel, Spock: Reflections, and a sequel (but still a movie prequel, if that makes sense) forthcoming. I haven't heard about a 24th-century sequel, though.

 

[Christopher]

There's a prequel, Spock: Reflections, and a sequel (but still a movie prequel, if that makes sense) forthcoming.

I suppose it could be a Countdown sequel and a movie prequel if it tells, say, Nero's experiences between the prologue and main body of the film. But that's just a guess.

 

[DimesDan]

There's a prequel, Spock: Reflections, and a sequel (but still a movie prequel, if that makes sense) forthcoming.

I suppose it could be a Countdown sequel and a movie prequel if it tells, say, Nero's experiences between the prologue and main body of the film. But that's just a guess.

From just seeing the film which was truly amazingly awesome we can infer that Nero spent the years between the prologue and the main part of the film in the custody of a certain alien species. I must admit it would be fun to find out what the hell happened and how he ended up there which I'm guessing was part of the aborted storyline that Mr Abrams has spoken about on occasions.

 

[Christopher]

^Right. There exists a complete sequence of Nero's crew imprisoned on Rura Penthe, but Abrams cut it from the film since it threw off the pacing and was an unnecessary sidebar. Expect to see it on the DVD's deleted scenes.

 

[DimesDan]

^Right. There exists a complete sequence of Nero's crew imprisoned on Rura Penthe, but Abrams cut it from the film since it threw off the pacing and was an unnecessary sidebar. Expect to see it on the DVD's deleted scenes.

That be it although I was just trying to be a tad cryptic as I still haven't figured out spoiler codes just get.

 

[Starbreaker]

Who is Harold?

 

[David Mack]

^ The partner of Kumar.

 

[captcalhoun]

Steptoe's son.

 

[ShinRa Actual]

Who is Harold?

One of our lovable authors referred to the original continuity as Harold as a joke. The term picked up a few fans, so when he asked them to stop, it became the new TrekBBS Meme.

It's Internet logic, just ask Harold-Spock.

 

[Starbreaker]

^ The partner of Kumar.

I'm still waiting for the Harold and Kumar / Star Trek crossover. Get back to work!

 

[GHS]

There's a prequel, Spock: Reflections, and a sequel (but still a movie prequel, if that makes sense) forthcoming. I haven't heard about a 24th-century sequel, though.

That sounds like that still makes Countdown both the chronlogical end of the original continuity, as well as the jumping-off point for the next (movie) continuity.

I'd be willing to bet there won't be any further 24th century post-Countdown tales for another four or five years. It'll take that long for everybody to figure out whether Countdown "counts" or not for the licensed Trek fiction. Until then, Pocket's writers may be less than enthusiastic about validating Countdown. But nobody will be contradicting it either, since it's got the weight of the movie's writers behind it.

After a few more films in the Abramsverse, I expect Harold will be relegated to an Earth-2-like status (meaning neglected second fiddle). So adventures that progress farther into the 24th century will fall under the alternative universe category as far as Paramount Licensing is concerned. Licensing may allow them, but not bother to ensure they're consistent with each other.

Until that time, I expect a lot of TATV-ish grumbling about how the Powers That Be fumbled away the chance to finish on a high note.

 

[GHS]

Who is Harold?

One of our lovable authors referred to the original continuity as Harold as a joke. The term picked up a few fans, so when he asked them to stop, it became the new TrekBBS Meme.

It's Internet logic, just ask Harold-Spock.

I don't recall where I first heard it coined, but it wasn't here. I think it's got legs beyond the confines of the message board, but time will tell on that, too

 

[Trent Roman]

I don't recall where I first heard it coined, but it wasn't here. I think it's got legs beyond the confines of the message board, but time will tell on that, too

Harold finds its origins here: http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=2398310&postcount=53

Let's give credit (blame?) where's it due.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[GHS]

I meant that regardless of who coined it, it isn't just confined to this message board.

I don't remember where on the web I first read it, but I laughed loudly enough that I was asked for an explanation.

 

[DEWLine]

^Right. There exists a complete sequence of Nero's crew imprisoned on Rura Penthe, but Abrams cut it from the film since it threw off the pacing and was an unnecessary sidebar.

Thus explaining the 47 dead Klingon ships, I'm guessing. That was his escape and revenge?

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Re: Is Countdown the TATV of Harold?

That sounds like that still makes Countdown both the chronological end of the original continuity, as well as the jumping-off point for the next (movie) continuity.

The thing is, there's nothing about Countdown that represents any sort of ending. It wasn't like "End of an Era," the storyline in Legion of Super-Heroes in 1994 that brought the first iteration of the Legion to a definitive close before Zero Hour. There are stories set after Countdown that really need to be told.

That said, as Christopher has noted, there are other ways to approach telling the story of Romulus' destruction and Spock's disappearance, because both of those are, to use his term, "game changers." (In his case, he was referring to the way Countdown altered the TNG crew status quo. In my case, it's purely galactic politics.)

I'd be willing to bet there won't be any further 24th century post-Countdown tales for another four or five years. It'll take that long for everybody to figure out whether Countdown "counts" or not for the licensed Trek fiction. Until then, Pocket's writers may be less than enthusiastic about validating Countdown. But nobody will be contradicting it either, since it's got the weight of the movie's writers behind it.

I don't know that it needs to be that long. We could see a post-Romulus-destruction novel by the end of 2010 at the earliest. A Time To, which was the prequel to Nemesis, began about eighteen months after the movie's release, as I recall. The question would be whether or not Pocket sees a priority in developing a project like that that quickly. They may not. For all I know, Pocket may be content to go its own way, while IDW develops the post-Countdown timeframe in their own way. I don't really know.

 

[Stevil2001]

Re: Is Countdown the TATV of Harold?

IDW is doing such a good job capitalizing on the new movie-- one tie-in out beforehand, two to follow almost immediately-- that I'd be surprised if we don't get some sort of 24th-century followup. Reaction to the book has been pretty positive from what I've seen-- io9 gave it a good review (heck, they read it in the first place, which is amazing for tie-in fiction) and TrekMovie was also positive. It's also sold really well for an IDW Star Trek book: 14,000 copies for issue #1. Compare that to some of their other issue #1's: 9,000 for Mission's End, 8,000 for The Last Generation, 8,000 for The Hollow Crown, 10,000 for Mirror Images, 10,000 for Assignment: Earth, 11,000 for Enterprise Experiment, 12,000 for New Frontier: Turnaround.

They'd be crazy not to capitalize on this in every possible way, including more 24th-century stuff.