Is America's best days behind it? or have they yet to come?

[miraclefan]

I just thought I'd ask what you think?. With both China & india on the rise & the dollar crumbling, A possible war on the Mexican/American border. People loseing faith in there Elected officials, Massive Racial, Religious, Enconomic & Pollitical riffs. And I just don't see this country ever coming back from this slump that just seams to be getting worse.*Bummed out*

 

[Amaris]

I think the United States has many great years ahead of it. It is what we make of it. If we give up now and let it fall to pieces, it will. Every nation goes through waxing and waning phases, this one is just a waning phase.


J.

 

[Rafterman]

America's best days have been behind it for quite awhile. It's going to take a tremendous effort to at least slow the general decay.

 

[Triskelion]

The country is what it's people make of it, so, the question is are the people's best days behind them or yet to come, and that, to me, sounds like a choice.

I will say this much: People seem eager to undo the past couple hundred years of labor progress, health, safety & environmental standards, the last couple thousand years of bloody history and the modern world's relative peace; have little appreciation for the contribution of religion to their rational worldviews and civil societies; and believe that it's easy to just graft US-type success onto other systems, like giving pre-warp civilizations Federation technology and expecting good results. All I'm saying is, for as much as people complain about the US, the information is out there for us to complain about, to discuss, to criticize and dissent. Questioning America's validity is an international sport these days, it seems, by people who live, basically, a US-influenced lifestyle. But give up the responsibility that comes with freedom - which, many people in this world prefer, as it gives them license to serve themselves with no accountability -and soon you'll have a society worth complaining about - minus any right to complain.

Be careful what you wish for!

 

[Amaris]

The country is what it's people make of it, so, the question is are the people's best days behind them or yet to come, and that, to me, sounds like a choice.

I will say this much: People seem eager to undo the past couple hundred years of labor progress, health, safety & environmental standards, the last couple thousand years of bloody history and the modern world's relative peace; have little appreciation for the contribution of religion to their rational worldviews and civil societies; and believe that it's easy to just graft US-type success onto other systems, like giving pre-warp civilizations Federation technology and expecting good results. All I'm saying is, for as much as people complain about the US, the information is out there for us to complain about, to discuss, to criticize and dissent. Questioning America's validity is an international sport these days, it seems, by people who live, basically, a US-influenced lifestyle. But give up the responsibility that comes with freedom - which, many people in this world prefer, as it gives them license to serve themselves with no accountability -and soon you'll have a society worth complaining about - minus any right to complain.

Be careful what you wish for!

It's simply a choice of culture. Right now we're a fast food nation. We want things our way, we want them now, and we'll forego all of the caution and the dangerous side effects just so we can have it that way. We can choose a better path.

J.

 

[sidious618]

What were our best days? I'm curious.

 

[Small White Car]

What were our best days? I'm curious.

It seems to me that most previous 'great times' in US history look a lot like this:

1780s*
1830s*
1890s*
1920s*
1950s*

* Unless you are female or a minority

So I guess it depends on who you ask. If you ask a white man then, yeah, we may never have it as good as the 1950's. A wife that stays home and cleans? A minority population that does the dirty work without competing for your white collar job? Wow! Great!

But, you know, if you were to ask those minorities and the women...well I'd say they probably think the future will be better than the past, even if we stop being the richest country on earth and are only the 3rd richest. (Horrors!)

 

[Triskelion]

The country is what it's people make of it, so, the question is are the people's best days behind them or yet to come, and that, to me, sounds like a choice.

I will say this much: People seem eager to undo the past couple hundred years of labor progress, health, safety & environmental standards, the last couple thousand years of bloody history and the modern world's relative peace; have little appreciation for the contribution of religion to their rational worldviews and civil societies; and believe that it's easy to just graft US-type success onto other systems, like giving pre-warp civilizations Federation technology and expecting good results. All I'm saying is, for as much as people complain about the US, the information is out there for us to complain about, to discuss, to criticize and dissent. Questioning America's validity is an international sport these days, it seems, by people who live, basically, a US-influenced lifestyle. But give up the responsibility that comes with freedom - which, many people in this world prefer, as it gives them license to serve themselves with no accountability -and soon you'll have a society worth complaining about - minus any right to complain.

Be careful what you wish for!

It's simply a choice of culture. Right now we're a fast food nation. We want things our way, we want them now, and we'll forego all of the caution and the dangerous side effects just so we can have it that way. We can choose a better path.

J.

Well I'm glad the economy is shaking people out of their comfort zones, to be honest. American consumption is an incredibly powerful force in the world. Imagine if it were put to enlightened use. Or maybe those concepts are mutually exclusive...?

 

[Kelthaz]

I think America's days as the sole superpower are long gone, but I hardly see the States turning into some poor third world country. You'll be fine economically, but your culture, political, and military dominance will decline.

 

[aftermath]

The best days are long gone. The greed, the cavalier attitude to the rest of the planet and the environment, the false logic that seems to make most Americans think that bigger=better, its slowly killing the country.

Whats really sad is that the "greatest generation" worked so hard to get America this wealth and opportunity, and the current generation seems to revel in fucking it all up.

 

[Mistral]

I think America's days as the sole superpower are long gone, but I hardly see the States turning into some poor third world country. You'll be fine economically, but your culture, political, and military dominance will decline.

Interesting view. Horribly wrong, but interesting. As long as we continue to have a stranglehold on the majority of the world's resources we will remain top dog. I think we have brighter days ahead, for despite the threat of the upcoming nanite plague(s) our future, bio-genetically engineered overlords will do everything in their power to keep the "Average American Citizen" happy, thus assuring their power base.

 

[sidious618]

What were our best days? I'm curious.

It seems to me that most previous 'great times' in US history look a lot like this:

1780s*
1830s*
1890s*
1920s*
1950s*

* Unless you are female or a minority

Exactly

The best days are long gone. The greed, the cavalier attitude to the rest of the planet and the environment, the false logic that seems to make most Americans think that bigger=better, its slowly killing the country.

Whats really sad is that the "greatest generation" worked so hard to get America this wealth and opportunity, and the current generation seems to revel in fucking it all up.

Yeah, they were a real great generation. They went to war and then came back and denied rights to black people and pushed for the Vietnam War. And greed is new? Really? It was greed which brought about the Great Depression so I'd say that's not really new. And a cavalier attitude towards the environment? Not new either.

 

[MIB]

The best days are long gone. The greed, the cavalier attitude to the rest of the planet and the environment, the false logic that seems to make most Americans think that bigger=better, its slowly killing the country.

Whats really sad is that the "greatest generation" worked so hard to get America this wealth and opportunity, and the current generation seems to revel in fucking it all up.

*ahem* Sorry, but the "greatest generation" were the ones who started alot of the policies that gave America alot of the problems it faces today. The "current" generation (who are only just now hitting their mid-twenties give or take) weren't the ones running things for the last 50 years or even the last 5.

 

[Teelie]

Yes, the baby boomers are what really fucked us up. They are the large generational bump in our current history. There was a huge influx of people born here and on top of that you have immigrants coming in as well (and before anyone jumps on it, I'm not anti-immigration, though I'd prefer it if they came in legally) which put together, is a huge strain on resources. Not to mention all the normal needs and wants of people contributing to the current decline. Now their children are having children and it's caused a huge growth spurt of people but not the jobs, resources, infrastructure, etc to maintain them. Especially not when the same baby boomer generation out sources the jobs to other countries.

Will America's best days be behind or ahead? Who knows. You can't read the future and despite the doom and gloom of today's forecasts, you can't predict what tomorrow will bring.

 

[Kelthaz]

I think America's days as the sole superpower are long gone, but I hardly see the States turning into some poor third world country. You'll be fine economically, but your culture, political, and military dominance will decline.

Interesting view. Horribly wrong, but interesting. As long as we continue to have a stranglehold on the majority of the world's resources we will remain top dog. I think we have brighter days ahead, for despite the threat of the upcoming nanite plague(s) our future, bio-genetically engineered overlords will do everything in their power to keep the "Average American Citizen" happy, thus assuring their power base.

I said sole superpower. I never said America wouldn't remain top dog, only that the rest of the top ten won't be quite so far behind.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Well, the spelling and grammar in the Thread title and OP don't exactly encourage me, but I'm still optimistic.

Standards may be low at the moment, but that doesn't mean they will continue to decline. And the current "Culture War" is really just one of those blips in History where an older generation (and some acolytes) are trying to hold onto the bad old days. This, too, will pass.

The Founding Fathers created an incredible template for the greatest civilization in Human History; but it was just a template. Over the centuries, we've had to continually struggle to bring reality closer and closer to the dream. We fought a Civil War to end slavery, we gave increasing protection to our working class, we gave legal protection to the Right of minorities and women to Vote; in my lifetime, we've seen the Civil Rights Era and the Women's Lib Movement bring increasing equality and prosperity to the country. Right now, six of our States (mine first among them) have recognized the Right of Homosexuals to marry-- something that would have been unthinkable even during the aforementioned Civil Rights Era-- and a Black man has been overwhelmingly elected to be our President.

While there will never be anything else on a par with the American Revolution, America's best days are still ahead of her. We will continue to improve as we always have. There have been and will continue to be mistakes and setbacks-- such as the Japanese internment camps in WWII and the rewriting of the Pledge of Allegiance-- because people are imperfect and the very nature of America is to struggle against thousands of years of social inertia. But we will continue onward until we reach our goal of being the best possible civilization; only then will the American Revolution be over.

 

[Triskelion]

Nicely put RJDiogenes! I'm loving your posts.

The other side of America's missteps are the public dialogue that allows us to know about the problems and discuss them, and even work for change.

In many ways the "decline" is more of an affirmation of other countries coming into their own, as well as outgrowing their own Hollywood Illusions. Perhaps the people of the world can outgrow their "love/hate" for the US and find a more reasonable balance - there is a nation and it is not going away, regardless of status or esteem. And sorry, but the idea of a permanently rising socioculture is...naive? But one thing the US will continue to do - is progress. It's very good at peaceful revolution.

During the Bush/Gore election, was there violence in the streets? I think some people in this world just like to throw rocks. Perhaps rising middle class changes that? I don't know. But the people of the US, who agitate for change, and practice civil disobedience - well I just wish I had better luck teaching that abroad than I do, which is to say, it sometimes seems like an impossible task. You can't empower individuals who don't recognize their own integrity. Here in China, if an American expresses concern over violence in Tibet or Xinjiang, it is because they "hate" Chinese. Sorry, who is throwing stones again?

It's about people; not boundaries. And while movies like to fantasize about whole swaths of populations being eliminated, in reality that fantasy is a gross lack of imagination or creativity or responsibility for making a better society and world.

A multipolar world is no judgment against the US. Except perhaps America's actual lack of imperialistic designs. I believe it would have been possible for the US to make the world a cozy, quieter place a long time ago. A homogenous world is antithetical to American principles. Principles which apparently frame the thinking of many an accuser.

Fact is people have never been better informed and more socially empowered and valid, across classes, and able to discuss things openly that even fifty years ago would have been unthinkable.

Of course, corruption and organized crime continue to be a threat to freedom, peace and society.

What people should realize is that the principles the US are founded on are not principles of race, ideology, culture, tradition, or blood. They are principles of rationalism and universal rights of life. Yet people continue to judge the US as if it were an imperious ethnic ingroup. It's not. Believe me, I'm not saying it acts with impunity. I'm not saying its wars are just or above questioning. I'm not saying the US succeeds at its ideals. I'm just saying that the principles exist. They have substance for a good many people.

For all the problems the US faces I challenge anyone to judge it - from a superior position.

United States are rational principles, and that is why it exceeds the boundaries of the continent, and the delineations of cultures within. People who see the USA as a tribe - miss the point entirely. People who see geopolitics as a nationalistic race to the top - probably ought to expand their definitions, because human populations and cultures are tougher than weeds.

But then, it has always been easier to detract, and take; to define reality in rigid stereotype and ideology, and hometown myopia; to shield oneself from broader perspectives; to wield one's illusions as a weapon; to nullify difference, objectify the "other", and compete for survival against them - invalidating one's own humanity in the process.

That's far easier, than to dig in and take a stand, make a change, and take personal responsibility for society and the world.

End of harangue!

 

[Neeka Keet]

I wouldn't say that America's best days are behind her. What I can say is that its days as sole superpower and imperial power are about to end. This isn't the end, just another beginning.

 

[TedShatner10]

It's very good at peaceful revolution.

Like the American Civil War. And what of the mob violence in California directed against Asian minorities, the anti-Capitalist riots in the 1920s/30s, the KKK's decades long reign of terror, and Civil Rights related mass violence?

 

[RJDiogenes]

^^ That was covered, in his Post and mine; there are mistakes, setbacks and missteps; but, overall, he's quite correct. Have you seen the rest of the world, or studied History?

Nicely put RJDiogenes! I'm loving your posts.

Thank you, sir. I appreciate that. Your Post was very eloquent and well stated as well.