Is a Star Trek Society Possible ?

[maccyj]

Hi Guys,
I am new here but I love star trek, I love the ideals, I love the tech, I love absolutely everything about it. With todays world problems i.e. financial markets etc I was wondering would it be possible to start something new, setup a star trek based society ?, I don't mean running around in Klingon (nothing against the klingons of course) outfits pretending to be something but actually setting up a proper society ?. I realise to begin with you would need money to buy what was required to setup such a society and you'ld have to trade with different society's but is it possible ? what other difficulities would there be?, well I have a made a little start and created a website, call it a social experiment but I would really like other people's ideas and opinions.
Thank
Maccyj
http://www.unitedfederation.co.uk

 

[Mach5]

I could write dozens of lines on the subject, but the simplified answer would be "NO."

 

[maccyj]

I have to ask why no ?, isn't there a solution to any problem (you might not think there is but that's because you haven't found it)? why would it fail ?
Thanks
Maccyj

 

[Pauln6]

No because people are basically tribal and susceptible to minimal group paradigms. Even if we could abolish poverty, currency, hunger, and disease, you'd still get rivalry and fights over philosophy, culture, religion, and land. Israel and Palestine form the classic example. If people were logical and sensible about the affair it would have been settled decades ago. The sheer arrogance and self-interest of the British Empire has left a legacy of problems throughout the world and I think the interfering Federation would quickly fall into that trap. The difficulties similar to those between the Cadassians, Federation, and Maquis would probably occur quite frequently.

 

[donners22]

I think the OP is actually suggesting a break-away group of people living according to Star Trek ideals, and maintaining contact with the rest of the world only for essential needs.

 

[maccyj]

I have to disagree with you Pauln6, you make it sound like we're all hopelessly doomed, and I don't think you can blame the old British Empire for everyone elses problems either and donners22 has got the idea in one ! that's what I was suggesting.

 

[Pauln6]

Lol - no I wasn't suggesting that we're all doomed (well, not for about another hundred years at least) merely that a Star Trek style utopia isn't achievable partly because of human nature. The British Empire was an example of a multi-nation 'state' where the governing body stomped on existing cultures and imposed the ideals that it thought were better. The most bizarre example is how the British made homosexuality illegal in India, which lasted until some 40 years after it was made legal in the UK. The federalist USA also rode roughshod over native cultures and stole land from Mexico and prejudice arising from those actions is still widespread today. These days people are massacring animals and plant life to the point where certain regions of the Earth are going to be inhospitable to human life in not too many years' time.

To achieve what you are suggesting you would need to acquire some land legally, obtain permission to build and farm it for your people. You would need to earn money to pay local taxes, medical care etc. If you set up shop in a region where none of this is necessary, chances are you would have limited legal rights and would be susceptible to eviction or theft by others who want your resources.
I suppose the American Amish societies are the closest you get to what you are looking for? However, even they are mired in sexism and religious ideology.

The sad fact is that most humans, while not fundamentally bad, are rather egocentric. They don't view the world too far beyond their own lives so, for example, they can't see that using their cars for short journeys is hastening the warming the world and potentially killing people (because millions of others just like them feel the same) or they can't see that smoking affects not just them but passive smokers and tax-payers because of the resources that have to be in place to care for fall-out from their smoking related diseases. Another fascinating example is that there is an outcry when a dying terrorist is released on compaasionate grounds from the same people who contributed directly to terrorist coffers by making donations to the IRA or who take recreational drugs for fun without connecting that they are funding terrorism or the child sex trade.

It's not all doom and gloom but I'm sorry to have to say that a Battlestar Galactica reboot future is far more likely than a Star Trek one. As a species we are just too flawed and selfish.

 

[The Wormhole]

Money is what makes the world go round. I doubt society is ever going to give it up, therefore a Trek-like society ain't likely to happen.

 

[maccyj]

Would it be better to try or not to try at all then ? because if you could get enough interest surely anything is possible ?

 

[Yeoman Randi]

How i wish it were possible, but humans being the way we are, i don't think it could happen unless a major event happened that would bring everyone together (such as aliens coming to earth). Other than that, i do not think it possible.

 

[Pauln6]

If the human population was controlled more stringently I think it would possible to improve matters with genetically modified crops in drought-ridden areas etc. But the kind of steps to make the goal achieveable in any realstic time frame could include compulsory sterilisation (because poorer countries simply don't have the resources to educate the populace and/or pay for contraception) and possibly even a cull of the sick and elderly! We'd have to crush human rights under-foot for the good of humanity and that is really unpalatable. We'll probably all end up eating Soylent Green instead! The steps we'd have to take to make a difference now would be too drastic. Without this we're looking at centuries to get to grips with the problems and we're going to have wars, possibly even nuclear or bacterial wars, over dwindling resources long before then.

Like Star Trek, any better society might have to grow out of the ashes of the one we're cocking up at the moment!

 

[maccyj]

Ok, so if you wanted to start a new society you'ld need to start away from current civilisation (which is possible), you'd need money and resources to do it, there are plenty of inhabitable islands(which you would have to buy) which could easily support humans with modern farming techniques, I don't think you could influence a current society but you definetly could create your own. You can setup an independant state it's been done just of the UK on an WW2 battery where there is a king and queen, you need your passport to visit the island and it has a 2 man army. So if you gathered enough people together to put time into various projects why couldn't you do it ?

 

[Pauln6]

Yes it is possible but if you're aiming for a Star Trek style utopia, how will you deal with immigration, sufficient food production, resources (such as wood) to build things, electricity production? It is possible but fraught with difficulties. Population control is your biggest problem, since that keys into so many other logistical issues.

 

[Thor Damar]

Yes, but only if it resembles the Cardassian Union or the Romulan Star Empire

 

[Mach5]

We already tried something similar; it was called communism. Didn't work.

IMO, a socially sensitive society similar to those in Scandinavian countries should be something to strive for.

 

[Myasishchev]

Eventually, yes, but probably the things that occurred in the Trek universe would have to happen--

1)genetically engineered humans uniting the normals against an essentially alien force for the first time;
2)a big nuclear war that kills a tenth of the population, perhaps leading to at least a generational pacifistic streak;
3)contact with real-deal aliens shortly thereafter, who could break us like the insects we were but are more-or-less nice, giving us a social model to imitate and adapt;
4)the creation of the technological ability to exploit our solar system as well as extrasolar resources;
5)several hundred years of cultural development centered on mostly European ideals, since America and particularly China and India were crippled by the war or wars;
6)the discovery of really mean aliens who would like to exterminate us (some of whom happen to be same species as the nice aliens in number 3, but we don't know that at the time ), leading to increased political unity in the face of danger
7)and, finally, the rise of the antimatter-driven replicator economy

I think, in the absence of aliens or at least existential threats to the species, we would not unite, but once we had, we'd probably be pretty solid after a few hundred years had passed (assuming mainly prosperous years) and everyone realized the superiority of the system and identified with the species instead of, say, Transdniestria.

 

[Joshua Howard]

Welcome, MaccyJ!

Firstly, I suppose that we need to lay down the basics of what a "Star Trek Society" actually is defined by. If we are talking about making Star Trek work in real life, then indeed, we lack a great deal necessary to do that. Nevertheless, by tapping into another little hobby of mine, I may be able to add a small bit to the idea which is being reached for.

Micro-Nationalism and Anarcho-Capitalism are two terms which I use frequently to describe a personal system that I use and appreciate. They mean, in a nutshell, that (1) if you want to, there isn't anything to keep you from making your own flag, raising it in your bedroom or backyard, and calling your home the Country of Whatever-your-name-is-ia, and that (2), as an individual you are sovereign, and as a sovereign (free-born) individual, neither you or your money is owned by anyone other than you. In other words, all the rules pertaining to you are made by you; it is called freedom, but may be fleshed out considerably into a number of more advanced concepts.

There isn't any reason why, with hard work and a loyal band of friends, you couldn't forge your own flag and constitution, buy some land, and live a progressive communal lifestyle based on peace and respect. It has been done countless times in the past. Communism can work, as long as it stays on a very small scale, such as within a family or small clan of trekkies. :P

A good example in Star Trek canon of such communal living would be the Ba'ku settlement, which we saw in Insurrection, and had a population of roughly 600.

Without question, you could create a micro-society based upon the social values of Star Trek; but without replicators and starships, it wouldn't look like Star Trek.

Also worth a mention is Walt Disney's vision of EPCOT, which was probably almost identical to your vision; a technologically advanced city of the future, based upon a self-inclusive communal structure.

I would venture, however, to point out that a Star Trek society does exist through people who enjoy and celebrate the Star Trek series because of what it stands for. Indeed, Star Trek fans don't live in little compounds together (usually :P); but that doesn't stop them from doing an active part to keep Roddenberry's original vision alive, seeking to embrace understanding, to better themselves, and to do whatever they can to make the world - and the galaxy - a better place.

 

[StarryEyed]

Very cool idea maccyj. I used to think about it all the time myself. It would definitely be a non-trivial undertaking but I would never try to dissuade someone from their dreams. I second Joshua Howard's suggestion of starting out small. Think about assembling a dozen or so people on forty acres before you start looking to buy an island and actually forming a sovereign state - unless Bill Gates comes on board!

And get a message forum started on your website. Places like this are good for floating your idea to people but it's not going to be discussed here in the detail it needs to be.

 

[Infern0]

I wish so, but no.

 

[Sci]

Question. What are the principles that a "Star Trek society" is organized around? What, exactly, is Gene Roddenberry's vision?