Iraq and Libya in the Eugenics

[Noddy]

The scenario in Greg Cox's Eugenics Wars novels would be an ideal way to resolve the situation. Unfortunately, ENT more-or-less trampled that when they gave a death toll numbering in the tens of millions; far more than was portrayed in the novels. As bad as the conflicts in the books were, nowhere near that many died. That's the biggest obstacle to accepting Cox's account.

 

[The Wormhole]

Dialogue in ENT made it seem as if the Eugenics Wars might have taken place in the 21st century rather than in the 1990s. Archer once referred to his great-grandfather fighting in North Africa during the war, so he probably would have to have been born in the early-to-mid 1970s at the earliest if the original date is still correct. Archer was, what, in his early 40s during ENT? So unless his grandfather was born late in his great-grandfather's life, and the same for Henry Archer and then Jonathan himself, the timeline seems a bit muddied.

The Augments trilogy specifically states 20th century in dialogue, which aired after Archer spoke of his great-grandfather in the Eugenics Wars.

 

[Sci]

The scenario in Greg Cox's Eugenics Wars novels would be an ideal way to resolve the situation. Unfortunately, ENT more-or-less trampled that when they gave a death toll numbering in the tens of millions; far more than was portrayed in the novels. As bad as the conflicts in the books were, nowhere near that many died. That's the biggest obstacle to accepting Cox's account.

I don't think there's a real problem with that. I mean, hell, something between two and five million people died as a result of the Second Congo War in real life, but you'd never know it from watching American media. Those books are essentially built on the disjuncture between American perceptions and actual reality; one could easily say that many millions more are dying in Africa as a result of the Augments than the main characters are even realizing.

 

[T'Girl]

Just because he didn't massacre people under his rule, doesn't mean he wouldn't use brutal tactics in the process of achieving that rule or he wasn't violent.

He said (paraphrasing?) "we tried to give the people order," suggesting a possible police state.

So Khan's goverenment would have been a "People's Democratic Republic."

No massacres, no freedoms, no elections. Political opponents and desidents quietly jailed or simply "disappeared."

 

[Sci]

Just because he didn't massacre people under his rule, doesn't mean he wouldn't use brutal tactics in the process of achieving that rule or he wasn't violent.

He said (paraphrasing?) "we tried to give the people order," suggesting a possible police state.

So Khan's goverenment would have been a "People's Democratic Republic."

Nothing about Khan's statement implies an even nominally leftist government. It's just as probable that Khan's talk of "order" meant monarchism, or Confucianism, or fascist-style racism. There is literally nothing in his sentence that implies a "People's Democratic Republic" (i.e., a nominally leftist, Socialist, or Communist government which is in reality a dictatorship).

 

[Enterprise1981]

The scenario in Greg Cox's Eugenics Wars novels would be an ideal way to resolve the situation.

I've read only the first book in that trilogy, but have a passing familiarity with the two from Memory Beta. The second book posits that a number of real-life conflicts were weaved into the so-called Eugenics Wars, and even lends credence to the notion that Eugenics Wars erupted when these "supermen" started fighting each other, as Arik Soong hypothesized. One such example was Khan and rival superhuman Vasily Hunyadi, the "real mastermind" behind genocide in the former Yugoslavia trying to assassinate each other.

 

[Skywalker]

Dialogue in ENT made it seem as if the Eugenics Wars might have taken place in the 21st century rather than in the 1990s. Archer once referred to his great-grandfather fighting in North Africa during the war, so he probably would have to have been born in the early-to-mid 1970s at the earliest if the original date is still correct. Archer was, what, in his early 40s during ENT? So unless his grandfather was born late in his great-grandfather's life, and the same for Henry Archer and then Jonathan himself, the timeline seems a bit muddied.

The Augments trilogy specifically states 20th century in dialogue, which aired after Archer spoke of his great-grandfather in the Eugenics Wars.

Whoops, I completely forgot about that. Thanks for the correction. I guess we could just reconcile the two by imagining that when Archer said "great-grandfather" he really meant a more distant ancestor, but decided that "great-great-great-grandfather" was rather unwieldy.

Of course, that's not the only bit of inconsistent dialogue from ENT. In one episode Archer said his father died when he was twelve, and in another he said his father lived to see him through flight school!

 

[Nerys Myk]

Archer started flying early.

 

[T'Girl]

In America today you have to be 16 years to pilot a airplane alone and obtain your private pilots license, in the future ... ?

 

[Noddy]

The scenario in Greg Cox's Eugenics Wars novels would be an ideal way to resolve the situation. Unfortunately, ENT more-or-less trampled that when they gave a death toll numbering in the tens of millions; far more than was portrayed in the novels. As bad as the conflicts in the books were, nowhere near that many died. That's the biggest obstacle to accepting Cox's account.

I don't think there's a real problem with that. I mean, hell, something between two and five million people died as a result of the Second Congo War in real life, but you'd never know it from watching American media. Those books are essentially built on the disjuncture between American perceptions and actual reality; one could easily say that many millions more are dying in Africa as a result of the Augments than the main characters are even realizing.

The number of people killed in wars in the 1990s is still nowhere near the figure given in ENT though. And where did all those Augment embryos come from? I'd think any left by Chrysalis in the 70s would have been destroyed once their operation was shut down by Gary Seven, and as I recall, none of the Augments were able to replicate their success in the books.

 

[T'Girl]

\The Augments trilogy specifically states 20th century in dialogue, which aired after Archer spoke of his great-grandfather in the Eugenics Wars.

Two separate eugenics wars nearly a century apart, we had more than one world war.

A possible timeline of Khan rise (and fall from) power could be this ...

In 1984 following the assassinated of Indira Gandhi, Noonien Singh age 34 become leader of the Indian government

1985, the charismatic Singh forges a political alliance with Pakistan.

1989, Afghanistan recovering from the Russian withdraw and series of weak coalition governments join Singh's alliance.

1991, with the covert assistance of the western powers, Myanmar/Burma's military junta is over thrown in a coup, India formally annexes Burma.

!991 India annexes Thailand.

1992, Indonesia's government is now largely composed of Singh loyal supermen and non-superman puppets.

1992, following the Gulf War Singh employs proxies to seize control of Iraq, that same year, surrounded and threaten with India's nuclear weapons, Iran quietly comes under Singh's control.

By the end of 1992, at age 42 Singh was the leader of one quarter of the world (or one quarter of the population). His government's senior leadership, now almost entirely comprised of other supermen, proclaims Noonen Singh "Khan."

1993, in over forty countries, more supermen seize power, mostly through intrigue, assassination, power plays and military coups. All of these governments are tyrannies.

1993, one group of Supermen in Indonesia and another group in Thailand seize control from Khan loyalists and separately succeed from India.

1996, by the beginning of this year most of the supermen are fighting each other and the non-supermen lead nations around them too. Internal revolutions combined with attacks from other supermen at his flanks lead to Khan being over thrown by his own people.

 

[Noddy]

So Khan's downfall was largely due to an internal war against some of his own who went renegade?

 

[T'Girl]

Partually, but also his conflict with other supermen distracted and weaken him militarily allowing the the general population to sucessfully rise up in revolt.