Interview: ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Production Designer Tamara Deverell

[TrickyDickie]

I am really sick and tired of all of the bullshit about more detail being better or even necessary. If the TOS Enterprise had even less detail, it would look just fine. If a flying saucer ever did land on the White House lawn and the exterior of it had no detail, would people get all bent out of shape and say to the aliens "Hey, dude, your ship has no detail on the outside and that's just wrong" ?

Here is a comparison. The first car is a 1971 Ford Mustang Sportsroof (base car, NOT a Mach 1) with a 429 Super Cobra-Jet V8 engine. It's probably worth about $50,000 or so. The second car is a $5 million Lamborghini Veneno. I don't care that the Lambo is faster, handles more precisely, etc, etc. I will take the Mustang every single time because it looks so much better. The Lambo is so cluttered and 'busy' with detail that it looks like something out of a comic book.

 

[Mudd]

What I enjoy is the completely specious logic used to defend what they're doing. Folks go "Of course it can't and shouldn't look like TOS" - absolutely true, I wouldn't argue otherwise - and go from that to "Therefore, the uninspired crap that these folks have come up with is just fine!"

 

[lawman]

Interesting. And frustrating, and disappointing.

"We talked about getting dancers to be the Pahvans, but it had to be VFX. We tried a costume, but to be something that ethereal and it’s not TOS days anymore when we can put a guy in a goofy costume. You have to really charge the audience with something exciting."​

Right. Because a bunch of sparkly dots of light (that look almost exactly like the sparkly-dots-of-light aliens in space just a few episodes earlier, and the sparkly-dots-of-light alien spores in the engine room in almost every episode) are so much more exciting!

Of course, it doesn't make much sense that incorporeal sparkly-light aliens would build a yurt. But, after all, the yurt was just an asspull devised in ten minutes based on orders from the network. Not the way they did things back in the TOS days, right?

"So, when I started out I was like “Wow, this isn’t TOS.” You can never go back to TOS. Those were charming, lovely sets made out of cardboard and sticky tape. You can tell if you watched them what they did. ... [So] yes, we are pre-dating TOS, but no we are not going to offer you TOS again fifty years later."​

Wow, the disrespect for TOS practically jumps out and assaults you here. That is not how the TOS sets were made, and it's insulting to say so. More importantly, however they were made, that is definitely not how they were designed — the designs were brilliant and thoughtful, and there's absolutely no reason current 3D printing and lighting and whatnot couldn't be applied to designs like those. (Just like they did, in fact, with the phasers and communicators.)

[Regarding the show's color scheme and past statements about it]: "Boy, you guys are really digging around! I guess it depends what we build!"​

Gosh, yeah, imagine asking detailed questions about the show's production design in an interview with the show's production designer! Who woulda thunk? And imagine believing that there was actually some coherent plan to it all, rather than just whatever they decide to build on the fly... isn't that quaint?

"And also it’s what people expect now. They expect darker parts. It’s not all dark, though."​

They do? Who says? Who are these people? Did someone do actual test-audience research about this? Or is it perhaps just an easy post hoc rationalization?

"Well I started around episode 6, so I’m just getting caught up. ... At first I was like, “Star Trek, sci-fi, hmm, I don’t know.”"​

Nice to know she has so much respect for the milieu she's working in.

"I was thrown in and all of a sudden I had to do the Terran ship, which is this massive ship and the sets for it. When you start a series, you have months to build, and we had episodic timing. So, I had to think quick on my feet about what to design that we could do quick enough to get it to make it look great."​

Well, that makes sense. I mean, it's not like it's an arc-based series where you can plan the stories way in advance... much less one with major production delays to give everyone more time to get up and running. But hey, at least they weren't designing things by the seat of their pants like back in the TOS days, right?

Seriously, though, at least this explains why the Charon looked absolutely nothing like any other ship ever seen before in Star Trek, ever.

"And getting up to speed with canon; having to go to “Star Trek University.” There’s a lot of stuff out there. I grew up with TOS, because that’s my generation. So, I had to do a lot of going back. You know there’s amazing resources out there, like fan sites that you can just go and with a click I can get, like Section 31."​

No, really? Who knew that such things existed? (And honestly, what's the point of saying that she grew up with TOS if she obviously never liked it, respected it, or knew anything about it?)

Seriously, I weep to think that this woman is in charge of the look of the show. Compared to the level of devotion shown by past design and production staffers like Sternbach and Okuda and Drexler, it's just pathetic.

 

[lawman]

Star Wars sets were always better designed. The Lucas used universe was better conceived and the Imperial designs are crisp and classic. As for Mad Men, Discovey is not a historical bio-pic or a period documentary.

Dude, I think you might've wandered into the wrong set of fan forums here.

But seriously... I couldn't disagree more. The design sense of Star Wars always looked to me like a kludgy, derivative mishmash of various bits and pieces. The design sense of Star Trek, from the start, has been innovative and thoughtful and distinctive and sometimes downright beautiful.

BTW — Mad Men wasn't a biopic or a documentary either. Not sure what point you were trying to make there!...

 

[KennyB]

Dude, I think you might've wandered into the wrong set of fan forums here.

But seriously... I couldn't disagree more. The design sense of Star Wars always looked to me like a kludgy, derivative mishmash of various bits and pieces. The design sense of Star Trek, from the start, has been innovative and thoughtful and distinctive and sometimes downright beautiful.

BTW — Mad Men wasn't a biopic or a documentary either. Not sure what point you were trying to make there!...

IF you were to read.......I did not bring up either. And Mad Men is set in an actual period of time that can be referenced for fashion and technology so thanks for chiming in.

 

[Gonzo]

What I enjoy is the completely specious logic used to defend what they're doing. Folks go "Of course it can't and shouldn't look like TOS" - absolutely true, I wouldn't argue otherwise - and go from that to "Therefore, the uninspired crap that these folks have come up with is just fine!"

Nothing strange there.

Just the usual, run of the mill, standard internet hypocrisy.

Some will like the show, some will not and never the twain shall meet.

At least until a newer show or film comes out that can be complained about instead.

 

[The Wormhole]

View attachment 4392

Why is General Quarters listed twice, and how is it different from Red Alert?

 

[mos6507]

They do? Who says? Who are these people? Did someone do actual test-audience research about this? Or is it perhaps just an easy post hoc rationalization?

I'd say the same people who like neck-tattoos such as Discovery's makeup guy. In the future I suspect today's tacky aesthetic sensibilities will be just as mocked as those who wore liesure-suits in the 70s. Or maybe things will just get progressively worse.

 

[Jarvisimo]

I brought up Mad Men (or can being up any well done period piece, like these lovely Spielberg films of late focused around the 1960s or early 70s like Bridge of Spies or The Post) to suggest that 1960s aesthetics could work really well. And don't look automatically silly.

Indeed, to counter this point, arguably what some complaining fans want is a historic recreation with a 2010s-20s budget. For me that means updated but with some sense of design lineage and a sense of periodicty. Much like how David Mack wrote the wonderful Vanguard novels, which paid homage to 60s fashions, beehives and the like whilst making them feel not dated. Or how Drexler did the covers of that series. (Seriously go on Google books, and read the first few chapters of book 1, Harbinger). (Possibly for this reason he got the first Disco novel). Or even the uniforms in the 09 film, which do look fab (even if other things are a bit weird). It just feels sad the designers cant envision a somewhat retro design language at a point when our design culture is wonderfully multi-periodised. One which doesn't need to be slavish or a copy, but which has a sense of time.

Nevertheless I like a lot of whats in the show; but it does feel ... derivative of current sci-fi visual language, and thus very contemporary to us and rherefore feels like something after all those other shows rather than ... Before. Or in the middle.

 

[Mudd]

Oh, this show will date as quickly as Enterprise or TNG.

 

[Mudd]

I will take the Mustang every single time because it looks so much better. The Lambo is so cluttered and 'busy' with detail that it looks like something out of a comic book.

So would l, but let's be fair - the Mustang there was a mid-priced street car, and its designers always had practicality, daily use and casual driving in mind when they made decisions. The Lambo, a supercar, is something else entirely. Extravagance is in its DNA.

A better comparison would be between these:



Now, I might still prefer the older car, but you must admit that it's an entirely different kind of choice than the Stang/Lambo matchup.

 

[TrickyDickie]

It was an extreme comparison, to make a point.

Take the first Romulan ship that we saw. Bird graphic aside (which, personally, I would not have included), the ship itself had very little detail. But sometimes that lack of detail is just as effective if not more so.

I have no complaints with this at all. I would not have wanted additional detail:

 

[Nerys Myk]

Why is General Quarters listed twice, and how is it different from Red Alert?

The other General Quarters is the head of the Marine detachment.

 

[cultcross]

I am really sick and tired of all of the bullshit about more detail being better or even necessary.

Not really 'bullshit', just an opinion you disagree with. The example you give, choosing between two cars, doesn't prove anything except your personal taste. Many would make the opposite choice, just as many feel that more detailed starships look better and/or more realistic.

 

[Mudd]

One of the silly things about detailing on Trek ships - as well as many others in TV and movies - is that the "realistic" detailing is way overscaled in order to be visible at all from any distance. The gaps between panels on something as smooth-skinned as the ST:TMP Enterprise refit, for example, are anywhere from two to four inches wide in most representations.

 

[Vger23]

I am really sick and tired of all of the bullshit about more detail being better or even necessary. If the TOS Enterprise had even less detail, it would look just fine. If a flying saucer ever did land on the White House lawn and the exterior of it had no detail, would people get all bent out of shape and say to the aliens "Hey, dude, your ship has no detail on the outside and that's just wrong" ?

Here is a comparison. The first car is a 1971 Ford Mustang Sportsroof (base car, NOT a Mach 1) with a 429 Super Cobra-Jet V8 engine. It's probably worth about $50,000 or so. The second car is a $5 million Lamborghini Veneno. I don't care that the Lambo is faster, handles more precisely, etc, etc. I will take the Mustang every single time because it looks so much better. The Lambo is so cluttered and 'busy' with detail that it looks like something out of a comic book.

ITZ TEH BULLSHIP!! PITISHON TO END TEH DIZCUVERY!!!1!1

 

[Mudd]

Not really 'bullshit'.

Well - actually, yeah, the version of the argument that asserts the necessity of incorporating a lot of nerny detail into designs in order to make them more modern or persuasive is, in fact, bullshit in defense of a design style which is, as you say, a matter of personal taste. There's nothing necessary about the kludgy approach being taken on this show and in fact other designers for other projects make other choices - many of which more observantly reflect where industrial and consumer product design has gone in this century.

Or, to continue the graphic comparisons,

This:


Does not relate to this, design-wise:



In the way that this:



Relates to this:



Or in the way that this:



Relates to this:



The current film Black Panther has a lot of very cool, futuristic and high-tech design in it - very science fictiony, and a great deal of skill and talent on display. Little of the stuff in the film bears any resemblance to the junk in Discovery, although a good deal of the prop stuff is at least a kissing cousin to the sorts of design that comes out of Cupertino and Mountain View and Tesla.

It would be lovely, in fact, if one damned visual thing in STD were as intriguing or aspirational as any bit of Wakandan tech we see in five minutes of Black Panther.

I mean, seriously - who fucking cares whether or not something "fits" with the look of TOS? I don't, and the people guiding Discovery have demonstrated that they sure as hell don't, not in any committed way...so, given their resources, there is no excuse for not doing some really cool stuff.

Again, to be fair...Airiam is not horrible. Nothing special, but not horrible.

 

[TrickyDickie]

Not really 'bullshit', just an opinion you disagree with. The example you give, choosing between two cars, doesn't prove anything except your personal taste. Many would make the opposite choice, just as many feel that more detailed starships look better and/or more realistic.

The bullshit comes in when people take the TOS lack of detail to task so far that it becomes an extreme.

 

[The Wormhole]

The other General Quarters is the head of the Marine detachment.

Groan

 

[Nerys Myk]

Groan

He's also the chaplain.