Insurrection timeline question...

Writing a FanFic and I am having a hard time figuring something out. I'm wondering when exactly does Insurrection take place? I know the movie was released during DS9's 7th season, which was after Jadzia Dax died. Yet in the script (http://movies.trekcore.com/insurrection/script.txt) there's a line at the beginning where Picard asks Worf about his bride, implying it's before she died. Then again, I can't remember actually hearing this line in the movie, so maybe it was cut (it's not streaming on Netflix, otherwise I'd just check for myself.)

So can anyone help me out? I know the movies and the TV shows weren't meant to directly follow one another, but I'm trying to hash out this small detail.

 

I don't believe the line is in the movie. If it is, it's possibly muffled to the point of unrecognizability.

 

I don't recall the line and I own the DVD. The only reference I can remember to Worf being on DS9 was a vague reference to him being on leave.

 

The line was removed from the script after Terry Farrell left DS9. There isn't really anything in the film that pinpoints it to a specific point in time, only a couple vague clues:

• Ru'afo mentions that the Borg invasion from First Contact happened "in the last twenty four months"
• Picard advises that they will return Worf to DS9 after they complete the mission, so its set sometime before the end of "What You Leave Behind"

So basically its sometime after First Contact, but before the end of DS9. I believe its generally thought that the film is set in 2375 during DS9's final season, some even believe that its set after the war, with the line about the Diplomatic Corps busy with Dominion negotiations implying they are sorting out a peace treaty post-war. You would have to squeeze it in between the Dominion's surrender and Worf leaving for his ambassador job in WYLB. It could even be set during DS9's sixth season if you really wanted.

 

Memory Alpha has had this to say about DS9's seventh-season outing "It's Only a Paper Moon" for as long as I can remember, so I dug it up for you:

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/It's_Only_a_Paper_Moon_(episode)

 

Memory Alpha has Insurrection set in 2375, which coincides with DS9's 7th and final season (stardates 52000-52999).

The movie premeired between "It's Only a Paper Moon" and "Prodigal Daughter" and close to the airing of Voyager's "Thirty Days" which was stardate 52179.4

 

I honestly don't think it was ever officially stated. The DS9 writing staff didn't really care about the movies and pretty much proceeded as if they didn't exist.

 

The thing about "Paper Moon" is, it's a weird time for the Dominion to do any negotiating. It's the first of three "filler" episodes in the war arc, and the next one to directly address the war, "Field of Fire", shows it going very badly for the UFP and its Axis of Alpha. Previously on Star Trek, we saw a quagmire at Chin'toka, suggesting the UFP wasn't exactly driving fear in the hearts of wrongdoers at that point, either.

ST:INS tells us the Son'a were "known to have produced" Ketracel White, a substance supposedly only useful to the Dominion (note the tense). The DS9 episode "Penumbra" shows the Son'a are still at it, several months after "Paper Moon", suggesting ST:INS actually takes place after "Penumbra". It does stretch credibility that Starfleet or the Federation would be dealing with the Son'a at all if they continued to supply UFP's mortal enemy; at the conclusion of ST:INS, the Feds would be in a position to demand cessation of such things, and to get what they demand, again suggesting ST:INS concludes after "Penumbra".

Then there's the total absence of references to the Dominion war, which one could accept in a postwar situation but hardly during the war. The only thing our heroes are doing that could even remotely be related to the war effort is drafting new allies - but it's a mission Picard drops faster than his hair, and was going to drop anyway because his next scheduled task was a months-long archaeology expedition!

The only thing connecting ST:INS to an ongoing DS9 is the suggestion that Worf would be "returning" to DS9 if not for Picard asking him to take part in the expedition to help Data.

Does that mean the episode takes place before the DS9 finale (or its immediate aftermath) where Worf is about to leave the station for a diplomatic assignment? Not necessarily, as Worf might have plenty of reasons to visit DS9 even after accepting the ambassadorship. Although an Ambassador probably wouldn't be overseeing "Manzar Colony defensive arrangements". But then again, neither should an officer serving on DS9!

We never learned whether Worf really did become an Ambassador; the next movie doesn't show him in that capacity. Possibly he stayed on DS9 (or in other tasks sometimes relating to that station) for years after the end of that TV show, and ST:INS took place during those years.

Yet in the end, the stardate-free movie only offers one timeline fixpoint, and a tenuous one at that. This is balanced by dozens of hints that there is no war anywhere for our heroes to worry about, and indeed that anything possibly relating to the war is in the past now: Son'a are no longer the enemy, the Dominion is negotiating rather than fighting, etc.

Timo Saloniemi

 

Interesting discussion, this, although one I'm sure has come up time and time before.

The last time I did a chronological full viewing, I stuck Insurrection during season 6 of DS9, before Jadzia's death. I can't remember exactly where, but it seemed to fit well enough. However, having read some of the comments here, I think next time I will place it further along, possibly after Penumbra, as Timo suggests above.

I also noticed this when googling:
http://nitcentral.philfarrand.com/discus/messages/4995/6234.html?994945138

I can't verify this stardate claim right now. Perhaps someone with the Blu-ray can make it out more clearly?

Off the top of my head, I can't recall what actually happens in Extreme Measures and The Dogs of War... can Insurrection fit there? Is there a chance for Worf to slip away and join the Enterprise for a while, or is that a no go?

 

From Trekcore:

 

^
Beat me to it. The later conversation between Picard and Dougherty on the viewscreen also terminates with the exact same message. Doesn't resemble a stardate apart from being a 5 digit number.

 

Right, thanks for posting that! Definitely no stardate, then.

I think I'm going with Timo's suggestion on this one. Fewest leaps of logic required.

Also, Wikipedia seems to agree (until someone decides otherwise, anyway!):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Star_Trek#Ordering_of_episodes

 

Early season 7 of DS9, presumably. It cannot be any later, since it wouldn't make sense for Worf to be building colonial protection against the Dominion after the war ended.

 

True, but what it ever clearly heard onscreen what Worf said?

 

Ah, but it isn't stated what he was doing, is it?

Movie transcript

Is this transcript accurate?

 

Looks right to me, I'll try and check this evening

 

Yeah, Riker talks over Worf's explanation of why he was there. I imagine that any information about why Worf was at the Manzar colony comes from earlier drafts of the script.

 

Also, postwar is as good a time as prewar or war for reinforcing one's defenses. Remember that the war ended with the Cardassian Union losing a lot of territory, and with Klingons and Romulans moving in. Borders shifted big time. This would definitely call for rearranging of defenses even after fighting with the Dominion was over.

Similarly, gathering new allies would be a priority after the fighting had ended, but getting the "help" of these nameless flower-eaters during the fighting would probably be purely counterproductive, as they were technologically primitive and would only represent another planet to be defended. Competing for weak allies is what took place after the World Wars here, at any rate - New World Order and all that.

Timo Saloniemi

 

Thanks for all the replies. I'm starting to think that TPTB were purposely vague with when this movie took place. With both DS9 and VOY going on they probably knew us uber fans would nit-pick it to death if they gave it an actual stardate, especially since there was a war going on that the Enterprise should be a part of.

But, I have to say that based on production dates, I can't see how it was set anytime after the last half of S7. I'm guessing that the script was probably written no later than early 1998 since it was filmed between March and July (http://www.cinemareview.com/production.asp?prodid=422) of that year and was released that December. In DS9 production terms, I'm guessing it was filmed as season 6 production ended and then during the break (which could explain why Michael Dorn doesn't miss much, if any, time from DS9 unlike when he did First Contact).

The fact that they took out the line about "Worf's bride" from the original script means that Terry's departure probably wasn't known when it was written, more evidence that it was written during the first half of S6. And even though it was cut, the script was written with the intent that Worf was "at the Manzar colony installing a new defense perimeter..." which to me means that it was supposed to be set during the war. I think that line got cut because it led into the line about Jadzia, which had to be cut.

So I'm thinking, at best, it's set between S6 & S7 or the first half of S7. The references to the ketrecel white production where there, IMO, as a way to appease those uber fans (like us) who would be upset that there was no mention of the war at all. Because, ultimately, this was a TNG movie and the war was a DS9 thing.

 

I'm sure it was supposed to be set during the war (however half-heartedly), but it arguably works better set after the war.