Inspired by the Dark Shadows Thread...

[Captaindemotion]

I've been dipping in and out of the thread re Tim Burton's proposed remake of Dark Shadows. I've never seen the original show (I'm not even sure if it aired on this side of the pond) but the premise sounds intriguing. Here's what http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Shadows says:

Dark Shadows is a gothic soap opera that originally aired weekdays on the ABC television network, from June 27, 1966 to April 2, 1971. The show was created by Dan Curtis, who tells of a dream he had in which a girl takes a long train ride to visit a large mansion. The story "bible," which was written by Art Wallace, does not mention any supernatural elements. It was unprecedented in daytime television when ghosts were introduced about six months after it began.
The series became hugely popular when, a year into its run, vampire Barnabas Collins (played by Jonathan Frid) appeared. Dark Shadows also featured werewolves, ghosts, zombies, man-made monsters, witches, warlocks, time travel (both into the past and into the future), and a parallel universe. A small company of actors each played many roles; as actors came and went, some characters were played by more than one actor. Major writers besides Art Wallace included Malcolm Marmorstein (who created the character of Barnabas Collins), Sam Hall, Gordon Russell, and Violet Welles.
Dark Shadows was distinguished by its vividly melodramatic performances, atmospheric interiors, memorable storylines, and an unusually adventurous music score. Now regarded as somewhat of a camp classic, it continues to enjoy intense cult status among its followers.

I don't know if the daytime soaps are still such a big deal in the USA but I don't think they are in the UK. But what I was wondering, in light of the DS remake, is would a modern-day supernatural soap opera work? Some have been saying that the DS movie won't work because without the soap/ daily broadcast aspect, it's just going to be another vampire movie (which seems to have some merit, IMHO).

I know that there was a DS remake in the early 1990s, which was short-lived. There's also been Caprica, which is almost a sci-fi soap opera (so I've been able to get my missus to watch it) but it's not going to be renewed for S2).

So would a soap opera, in the mould of Dallas, Dynasty, or even Coronation Street or Eastenders, replete with vampires, ghosts, werewolves and the other pleasant denizens of DS work in the modern day? People said for years that fans wouldn't accept a show like Dr Who in the modern era, but now it's one of the most popular shows in the UK and one of the BBC's biggest exports.

Thoughts?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Daytime soaps have been fading in the U.S. over the last several decades. There are still a few.

 

[Captaindemotion]

^ So is the supernatural the hook that might be required to give a new one an advantage over the others?

 

[Greg Cox]

They tried a prime-time version with THE GATES a few months back, but the show was unfairly dismissed as "Desperate Housewives with Vampires" before it even aired.

On the other hand, VAMPIRE DIARIES is basically a teen-friendly version of DARK SHADOWS, complete with witches, werewolves, tangled family histories and historical flashbacks. It's DS with a younger, prettier cast . . . and it seems to be working.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

^ So is the supernatural the hook that might be required to give a new one an advantage over the others?

No.

According to a little fast and superficial research (IOW, wikipedia) there hasn't been a new network soap created in the U.S. since 1999. The most ever on the air here in the same season were 19; there are now only six. It's a fading format, and it's unlikely that the networks spend much time (certainly little money) figuring out how to dominate the soap schedule. The genre's being kept on life-support by loyal long-time viewers, and you know what happens to them eventually.

 

[Greg Cox]

^ So is the supernatural the hook that might be required to give a new one an advantage over the others?

No.

According to a little fast and superficial research (IOW, wikipedia) there hasn't been a new network soap created in the U.S. since 1999. The most ever on the air here in the same season were 19; there are now only six. It's a fading format, and it's unlikely that the networks spend much time (certainly little money) figuring out how to dominate the soap schedule. The genre's being kept on life-support by loyal long-time viewers, and you know what happens to them eventually.

Agreed. They tried that with PASSIONS, but it's gone now.

Serialized storytelling is common in prime-time these days, but daytime soaps are going the way of radio dramas. It's a dying format.

 

[Captaindemotion]

^ I don't want to get off-topic so early, but Dallas is apparently being revived and a Dynasty movie is in the works.

But I suspect that your answer re Dark Passions and the Vampire Diaries probably answers my original question.

 

[Greg Cox]

^ I don't want to get off-topic so early, but Dallas is apparently being revived and a Dynasty movie is in the works.

But I suspect that your answer re Dark Passions and the Vampire Diaries probably answers my original question.

Depends on how we define "soaps," of course. DALLAS and DYNASTY were both weekly, prime-time shows, not traditional daytime soap operas. In a way, I guess, the serialized format has simply moved into prime-time . . . .

And I suspect you meant "DARK SHADOWS" in that last line. Just to avoid confusion, PASSIONS was a different soap opera, that also featured witches and the supernatural.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

So would a soap opera, in the mould of Dallas, Dynasty, or even Coronation Street or Eastenders, replete with vampires, ghosts, werewolves and the other pleasant denizens of DS work in the modern day?

Isn't that what True Blood essentially is? A supernatural soap with lots more sex because it's on cable?

Literal soaps (on during the day, cheaply made) are fading because there are fewer housewives staying at home during the day and reality TV delivers campy antics much more cheaply than any soap ever could. But the serialized "soap opera" format works well with sf/f elements.

 

[Captaindemotion]

^ I don't want to get off-topic so early, but Dallas is apparently being revived and a Dynasty movie is in the works.

But I suspect that your answer re Dark Passions and the Vampire Diaries probably answers my original question.

Depends on how we define "soaps," of course. DALLAS and DYNASTY were both weekly, prime-time shows, not traditional daytime soap operas. In a way, I guess, the serialized format has simply moved into prime-time . . . .

And I suspect you meant "DARK SHADOWS" in that last line. Just to avoid confusion, PASSIONS was a different soap opera, that also featured witches and the supernatural.

Actually, I meant Passions (must've been thinking of those mirror-universe books when I called it Dark Passions) and The Gatess, the other one you mentioned - I was referring to the fact that recent attempts at supernatural soaps have failed.

So would a soap opera, in the mould of Dallas, Dynasty, or even Coronation Street or Eastenders, replete with vampires, ghosts, werewolves and the other pleasant denizens of DS work in the modern day?

Isn't that what True Blood essentially is? A supernatural soap with lots more sex because it's on cable?

Literal soaps (on during the day, cheaply made) are fading because there are fewer housewives staying at home during the day and reality TV delivers campy antics much more cheaply than any soap ever could. But the serialized "soap opera" format works well with sf/f elements.

I think it's like Greg says, the serialized story has moved into a different format or timeslot. And yes, True Blood has soapy aspects. Again, I wonder if it would work on ABC or wherever.

 

[Davros]

^ So is the supernatural the hook that might be required to give a new one an advantage over the others?

It didn't keep Passions on the air.

 

[RJDiogenes]

The closest thing to Dark Shadows right now is Vampire Diaries, which is the most popular show on little ol' CW ( or so I am told). It's actually very similar, with flashbacks to previous centuries and so forth. It's not as Gothic, of course, because it's designed for a young, contemporary audience, and it could stand to get a little nuttier with the supernatural elements, but overall it's not that bad, surprisingly.

 

[Greg Cox]

The closest thing to Dark Shadows right now is Vampire Diaries, which is the most popular show on little ol' CW ( or so I am told). It's actually very similar, with flashbacks to previous centuries and so forth. .

It even has evil dopplegangers!

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Serialized storytelling is common in prime-time these days, but daytime soaps are going the way of radio dramas. It's a dying format.

Exactly. One can call any serialized tv series a "soap" if one likes, but Dark Shadows was a daytime video serial which was a specific format that dominated the afternoons on the networks in this country for decades. Dynasty, Dallas, The Vampire Diaries are all something very different in terms of the economics, the target audience and the way they're produced.

It even has evil dopplegangers!

Oh, it's in the WGA Basic Agreement that any tv staff writer is permitted the doppleganger as a freebie - once every three seasons you're allowed to submit the evil twin story and your show is required to pay you and produce it.

I believe there's a similar "rodeo" clause.

 

[Greg Cox]

Oh, it's in the WGA Basic Agreement that any tv staff writer is permitted the doppleganger as a freebie - once every three seasons you're allowed to submit the evil twin story and your show is required to pay you and produce it.

I believe there's a similar "rodeo" clause.

Along with the special episode set in Vegas and/or Hawaii, and the episode where the heroes get stuck taking care of a baby . . . .

 

[Mr. Adventure]

^ So is the supernatural the hook that might be required to give a new one an advantage over the others?

No.

According to a little fast and superficial research (IOW, wikipedia) there hasn't been a new network soap created in the U.S. since 1999. The most ever on the air here in the same season were 19; there are now only six. It's a fading format, and it's unlikely that the networks spend much time (certainly little money) figuring out how to dominate the soap schedule. The genre's being kept on life-support by loyal long-time viewers, and you know what happens to them eventually.

Agreed. They tried that with PASSIONS, but it's gone now.

Serialized storytelling is common in prime-time these days, but daytime soaps are going the way of radio dramas. It's a dying format.

Port Charles had some vampire crap as well. I remember trying to watch one because they had a Buffy pastiche and I was curious but there was a painful amount of *soap* to wade through for the payoff.

 

[timothy]

DARK SHADOWS was here in the states and ran seven years . It is also is on vhs I don't know if it is on dvd yet . Now for PASSIONS I never saw it . But, it was plugged on buffy the vampire slayer . Buffy's mom was watching it and spike was a fan as well . vampire diaries pokes fun at twilight which was funny . and trueblood pokes at buffy as well. I love urban fantasy just as much as sci - fi & fantasy I just wish there was more on it .

As far as daytime television just put it on tnt . you have great shows like :

1) angel
2) charmed
3) supernatural
4) Bones

These are just a few good show that are In sindications . otherwisee Current daytime
television sucks @$$ !! especialy reality well except GORDON RAMSEYS .

 

[Captaindemotion]

I think it's interesting that once upon a time Dark Shadows stood out from the crowd because of its supernatural elements. Nowadays, the consensus seems to be that what would stop it, or something like it, being a success is not the supernatural aspect but the fact that it was a daytime serialised soap. What was once unusual has become commonplace, what was once the norm has become an endangered tv species.

 

[RJDiogenes]

The closest thing to Dark Shadows right now is Vampire Diaries, which is the most popular show on little ol' CW ( or so I am told). It's actually very similar, with flashbacks to previous centuries and so forth. .

It even has evil dopplegangers!

True. Now we need some man-made monsters and parallel time.

vampire diaries pokes fun at twilight which was funny . and trueblood pokes at buffy as well.

Vampire Diaries and Supernatural have both poked fun at each other, too.